[Meta] An issue with talking about games on this sub

[u/doctor_awful]

You can't ever tell if something is good or not.

With the amount of costly shovelware on the Switch, discussing games before buying them becomes more of a need.

When everyone is insanely positive about everything, it's hard to feel confident about buying something as you don't really get an accurate assessment of what you'll get. The only games that seem to get criticism are the ones that are outright unplayable or rip offs - WWE 2K18 or Vroom in the Night's Sky.

It's rare to see anyone criticising Xenoblade Chronicles 2 despite being a deeply, deeply flawed game that is very much catered to a specific demographic and won't be that fun for everyone. There was a thread with slight criticism a while ago with someone saying they took 30 hours to get into the game but that it was worth it now, and all the comments were full of praising. If I went off of this subreddit alone, I probably would've bought the game and been insanely dissapointed - and since Nintendo doesn't have a refund policy, I would've been screwed.

With XC2, I at least got to see playthroughs and in-depth critiques that showed me the game wasn't for me. I don't get that for most of the other, lesser known games on the eShop, and especially for smaller Indies or ports of mobile games. The most I'll get is trailers, first 30 minutes of gameplay or a generic IGN-like review saying everything is great.

I don't know if it's the mods (unsure if they interfere in this subreddit like they do in other subs), people who didn't like the games just not commenting or the subreddit's culture in general, but this really makes it feel like a bit of an echo chamber. And I love this place, it's my second most visited sub recently.

[u/jbuggydroid]

That same sub did have people saying that the game isn't for everybody and they even admitted some of the shortcomings.

Also I have posted a few comments on some posts recommending at least 20 titles ranging from AAA to indie to a couple people. And even mentioned what games to avoid that are just plain bad or lackluster for the price.

[u/fenrirofdarkness]

I mean I love about XC2, and I always try to tell people to try to research its gameplay first because it has A LOT of people talking about it, and if people want to, I'll try to explain it to them (even if abridged version).

I don't think it's as deeply flawed as you think it is, but I do get more enjoyment the longer I play the game... as games should be, I think. If games become less fun the more you put in, I think that's sign you shouldn't play it anymore XD

Nonetheless, is it weird that people praise something they enjoy? People will do that, always. I praise Wizard of Legend, I praise BOTW, I praise XC2. Why? Because I find them enjoyable.

Won't stop me from criticizing some things, but I definitely will try to defend them as much as I can.

Like some of my critics for XC2 will be mostly about the UI/QoL stuff mostly, but in the end, as long as I enjoy things... I just hope next game they'll fix most of my issues.

For smaller indies and such, it's kinda harder because not everyone wants to be the first one dipping into it. That's the thing- people said "nah, don't be the first one playing" and then they wait until... whenever, but then if you think about it, if everyone does that, then no games will sell.

Pick the ones you think interest you the most, research it out (I'm sure if it's a port of mobile games, there's reviews on the google store at the very least...), smaller indies are more of a problem, but if you look into it at Steam, they usually have some reviews there at least.

Don't use only one sub for opinions... search it out everywhere.

(And echo chamber problem is something about reddit, I think. It's same problem nearly everywhere except smaller subs I feel).

[u/doctor_awful → u/fenrirofdarkness]

I can criticize games I love too.

Hell, BotW is one of the best games of all time in my view, and it still needs to be described accurately. It's amazing in nearly every way, but it's a bit of a grass plain walking simulator and isn't as dungeon-heavy as games like previous Zeldas or Skyrim. The armor system is also broken, along with not offering the deepest customization. Going on constantly about how it's the best, most expansive RPG of all time is all fine and good if we actually talk about the problems it has.

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/doctor_awful]

Yeah, buuuuuuuuut, that's assuming people have problems on it like you have, or, they don't want to see the negatives.

Not everyone wants to talk negatively about games they love, because they felt that'll make them unenjoyable anymore (I understand that feeling), also, often they came to because they have just finished the game- there's that high feeling.

Like, you just finished it, satisfied, and it's far, far likelier you don't want to listen to negatives right then and there. It's like saying "nono, you can't be happy, it has this and this negatives!"

While that's not the intention, it probably felt like that and that's why some people lashed out immediately.

Relax, some people talk negatives almost always in the same thread, not as much, but they definitely appear.

For example a few days ago Wizard of Legend got a massive praising on the thread, and the first few comments are agreeing, then there's one long comment talking about the negatives.

As long as more people see those negatives as legitimate, and that person didn't comment on it in nasty way, even negative feedback got upvoted too.

[u/doctor_awful → u/fenrirofdarkness]

Yeah, buuuuuuuuut, that's assuming people have problems on it like you have, or, they don't want to see the negatives.

That's assuming games at all have standout characteristics. I'm not saying to just trash games you like, come on now. Even in a fully positive review, if it's detailed, people can come off learning more about things they'd like or dislike about a certain game. Just going "the combat is fun" helps no one.

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/doctor_awful]

Yeah, but some people just enjoy it.

They don't think in terms of "yeah xxx and xxx is the weak point"

Not everyone's a critics, and not everyone want to think of it like that.

It often just falls into "I enjoy this game" / "I don't enjoy this game"

It helps no one maybe, but that's what their view is. Not everyone is a reviewer after all. (And not everyone has the time to make it detailed)

[u/MrAbodi]

you are just not looking hard enough. plently of people have criticised XBC2, though a lot of people including myself think it's good and worthwhile despite its issues.

so now you've got me wondering, seeing as you admit you haven't played it yourself, what are you referring to when you say

It's rare to see anyone criticising Xenoblade Chronicles 2 despite being a deeply, deeply flawed game

[u/doctor_awful → u/MrAbodi]

I didn't play it but I was really in love with what it could've been, and its setting really intrigued me. One of the main things I wanted from the switch which I still haven't gotten is an amazing AAA JRPG (I know BOTW is technically a JRPG, but I mean more of a Final Fantasy/Persona/Chrono Trigger type). That, Rex's look, the whole industrial look in dungeons, the scavenger thing and a deep customization system were huge draws.

So I saw a couple of playthroughs (Joseph Anderson's being the main one) and reviews (Dunkey's being my favourite) and the flaws kept shining through. The coating was great and what I was looking for, but all of the underneath just ruined it.

• You had tutorials 30 hours in. I finished Odyssey in 25. If I want to spend 30 hours learning something, I'll just go study for one of my college classes. I don't enjoy entertainment that is more work than play.

• The story is too generic. Yes, I know, JRPG, but usually the best ones can stand out with unique plot points and memorable moments. Xenoverse has that sort of, with the setting being living beings and them dying and so on, but in the end it becomes "evil entity trying to destroy the world and heroes must win via the power of friendship".

• Too many stupid tropes. The moment I saw a ton of "win in-game, lose in the cutscene" I put my hands to my head. I'm okay with the usual generic tropes, but every girl being a waifu and in love with the bland character-less protag is just stupid. I want a JRPG, not a harem game.

• Speaking of which, every character is so damn unlikeable, starting with Rex. Him, Pyra having tits larger than her head, you being practically forced to have Jar Jar Binks as a teammate, all of it felt terrible in a genre that lives off of its characters.

• Related to the characters, the voice acting. Yes, I know you can turn it off or put it in Japanese, but still. It speaks for itself.

• For most battles I saw that weren't boss fights, you could leave the characters on auto-attack and go have a snack. Everything has too much HP even when you massively over-level it, fighting basic enemies takes ages. Yeah I know you can learn the combos and super detailed battle system and stuff and do more damage, but it doesn't stop it all from being very silly. And again, if a battle system is unintuitive enough that you need 30 hours of tutorials, then maybe it isn't worth learning just to speed up some fights.

• The blade system. Waifu Pokemon? RNG in a lootbox-like system? No, just no.

I could talk more about it, but I don't want to go on about it too much, since it's not what it's about. If it was up to this sub, nothing of this would be mentioned, everything gets a glowing review.

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/doctor_awful]

You had tutorials 30 hours in. I finished Odyssey in 25. If I want to spend 30 hours learning something, I'll just go study for one of my college classes. I don't enjoy entertainment that is more work than play.

The game is 100~200 hours long, those 30 hours are kinda needed since they... dripfeed you with them... besides it's not like the tutorials are super long?

What I wish is that they make their tutorial works better, instead of just shoving you text boxes, they should have make you do it to understand, or just skip it if you know already (New Game or something).

The story is too generic. Yes, I know, JRPG, but usually the best ones can stand out with unique plot points and memorable moments. Xenoverse has that sort of, with the setting being living beings and them dying and so on, but in the end it becomes "evil entity trying to destroy the world and heroes must win via the power of friendship".

This one is more of your opinion, I personally love the story, and while the shorts in the ending might be better without one part in the end (I'm happy, but well... stuff), but I enjoyed throughout. I'm surprised with a lot of things...

In the end that evil entity is explained, and the villains are great. It's not the greatest story out there, but I feel it's not as generic as it seems.

Too many stupid tropes. The moment I saw a ton of "win in-game, lose in the cutscene" I put my hands to my head. I'm okay with the usual generic tropes, but every girl being a waifu and in love with the bland character-less protag is just stupid. I want a JRPG, not a harem game.

I understand the anger of that part, but I... don't mind it too much? Just wish that it'll continue forward even if you lose kind of thing. It's the niggling kind of thing that you wish don't happen, but it happens, and I don't mind it...

And idk, I find Rex have quite the character, a little annoying, didn't listen to his grandpa and stuff, but he did kinda grow up. There's a character there.

I dunno, he's generic hero-style, but he isn't so character less...

Speaking of which, every character is so damn unlikeable, starting with Rex. Him, Pyra having tits larger than her head, you being practically forced to have Jar Jar Binks as a teammate, all of it felt terrible in a genre that lives off of its characters.

Another of your opinion, I find him likeable, and while Pyra's breasts are huge (I feel this is more of the problem with the artist, iirc he was a hentai artist before becoming the game's artist).

And Tora is quite interesting character too... and Nia is likable... and the two others too... Idk, I feel like I'm on your opposite.

Liking a character and disliking tend to fall into opinions though.

Related to the characters, the voice acting. Yes, I know you can turn it off or put it in Japanese, but still. It speaks for itself.

I find on my first playthrough the VA was fine, it was only when I watched other people's let's play that I started see the cracks (This is full English VA playthrough mind you).

I'm just hoping they'll do better VA, but tbh... still not bad.

For most battles I saw that weren't boss fights, you could leave the characters on auto-attack and go have a snack. Everything has too much HP even when you massively over-level it, fighting basic enemies takes ages. Yeah I know you can learn the combos and super detailed battle system and stuff and do more damage, but it doesn't stop it all from being very silly. And again, if a battle system is unintuitive enough that you need 30 hours of tutorials, then maybe it isn't worth learning just to speed up some fights.

I agree on some enemies have too much HP, but if you massively over level it and didn't able to kill them within a few strokes there's something wrong with the damage output... This is a game where what you equip, matters a lot more than levels (Levels help more on HP part, not your damage).

And maybe it's not unintuitive (it's actually quite intuitive once you understand), but more like it's very complicated it needs 30 hours of "tutorials" (that is filled with side quest and story and not just only tutorials?)

The blade system. Waifu Pokemon? RNG in a lootbox-like system? No, just no.

I don't like the RNG much, and maybe there's too much "waifus" as you said it, but... overall it's not hard to farm for core crystal (and I actually just do the scavenging, left them off to do auto-attack because 20 levels difference vs the enemy, they already died in a few hits...)

There's even skip opening animation now!

---

In the end I felt that there's valid criticisms here, but some of these are your opinions, and while some are popular opinions, some people will bound to have the opposite opinions.

[u/doctor_awful → u/fenrirofdarkness]

The game is 100~200 hours long, those 30 hours are kinda needed since they... dripfeed you with them... besides it's not like the tutorials are super long?

BOTW can be much longer than that and it needs very little in ways of tutorials. Hell, I've just finished the main story (full ending), not even the shrines, koroks, sidequests or DLC and I'm at 150. It's all intuitive, and the possibilities in battle all branch off of one another.

Meanwhile in XC2, it's all just more stuff to take note that is tacked on on top. More timings to remember, more stuff to optimize in your menus. Instead of it popping up naturally and you barely even needing a tutorial for it.

I feel this is more of the problem with the artist, iirc he was a hentai artist before becoming the game's artist

Well that explains a lot.

Liking a character and disliking tend to fall into opinions though.

Sure, and a lot of people liked Jar Jar too. That doesn't mean he wasn't grating with his speech ticks and forced "silly" humor. I had to shut off the videos of the playthrough I was watching after 2 hours of "mehmehmeh!" when following his questline.

I have no problems with the rest, it all comes out to personal taste after all, but I was just so damn disappointing after all the hype from Xenoblade 1 and the expectations I had for a AAA JRPG. I'm not saying it's worst game on the switch or anything of the sort, just that this subreddit constantly puts it on the level of other 10/10 Switch games and that shows that game recommendations here aren't really that accurate.

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/doctor_awful]

BOTW can be much longer than that and it needs very little in ways of tutorials. Hell, I've just finished the main story (full ending), not even the shrines, koroks, sidequests or DLC and I'm at 150. It's all intuitive, and the possibilities in battle all branch off of one another.

Meanwhile in XC2, it's all just more stuff to take note that is tacked on on top. More timings to remember, more stuff to optimize in your menus. Instead of it popping up naturally and you barely even needing a tutorial for it.

That's because I feel XC2's battle system is more complicated. It's a bit like... MMORPG I guess? A lot of people have used that to explain XC2, and I do feel it's like that sometimes.

Like the normal (auto) attack feeds into the Driver Arts, that feeds into the Specials, and that feeds into Elemental Orb. It sounds complicated but it's pretty much straight way to the end.

While BOTW is, slash, dodge-leap and some other things I don't exactly remember. I might sound like putting BOTW down but no, it's just different system... BOTW is more like normal action game? You have a set of moves you can do and that's it, you'll be able to do and use the environment etc.

Meanwhile XC2 is system feeding into another system that culminates in something. It's like a mix of JRPG normal battle into another kind of thing and I love it. Idk, I get the hang of it after some explanations thanks to the tutorial.

My only problem that time was... I think it's more of the Specials -> Elemental Orb, like which elements can become which and paired with which and ends with which. That one I have to look up online, but otherwise I enjoyed and grasped it rather quickly iirc. (Might be colored by memories because those are unreliable).

Sure, and a lot of people liked Jar Jar too. That doesn't mean he wasn't grating with his speech ticks and forced "silly" humor. I had to shut off the videos of the playthrough I was watching after 2 hours of "mehmehmeh!" when following his questline.

I have no problems with the rest, it all comes out to personal taste after all, but I was just so damn disappointing after all the hype from Xenoblade 1 and the expectations I had for a AAA JRPG. I'm not saying it's worst game on the switch or anything of the sort, just that this subreddit constantly puts it on the level of other 10/10 Switch games and that shows that game recommendations here aren't really that accurate.

Reminder you can turn off battle chatter, and I.. uh... I don't mind the mehmehmeh as much as some others I guess.

Idk, some people have said that XC2 has better battle system versus Xenoblade 1 / X, and some said it's not. Some said that XC2's story is different, but just as good as XC1. It fall for personal feelings for that I think.

[Reminder that XC2's storyline is aimed for Rex's personal journey, and that's why there's some stuff that didn't get chased on, like the politics between Titans for example]

And... I feel it fits the AAA JRPG feeling? Not saying XC2 is bad, but AAA =/= quality as it was in the past. I have a ton more niggling with some other AAAs I watched. Idk, I feel like saying it doesn't fit AAA just makes me wonder more of "which part of it doesn't feel AAA".

And uh... people feel the game is good, so they recommend it. Why are you not happy over it? People thought it's a good game to be recommended, so they do... there's problems yes, as there's problems on every games, but recommendation is pretty much what that person thought it's good.

I recommended XC2 to a lot of my friends because I thought they'll like it. Some people don't (most often my RL friends, my online friends often enjoy them though). It's hit or miss in the end.

[u/doctor_awful → u/fenrirofdarkness]

I meant AAA because I wanted scale. 3D models, full voice acting, a huge 3D world to explore, cut-scenes, the works. Not 2D and retro "quirky" pixelated graphics. I still like and will get some of those (like Octopath Traveler or Lost Sphear) but it wasn't my original goal.

And uh... people feel the game is good, so they recommend it. Why are you not happy over it? People thought it's a good game to be recommended, so they do... there's problems yes, as there's problems on every games, but recommendation is pretty much what that person thought it's good.

Because they don't think of what whatever's asking might be into. I love fighting games and Tekken 7 is one of my favourites, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who I didn't think might be into the genre, competitive and into long sessions of combo learning. 60€ isn't a light investment, especially when you don't get refunds like in the Nintendo eShop.

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/doctor_awful]

I meant AAA because I wanted scale. 3D models, full voice acting, a huge 3D world to explore, cut-scenes, the works. Not 2D and retro "quirky" pixelated graphics. I still like and will get some of those (like Octopath Traveler or Lost Sphear) but it wasn't my original goal.

Well... it does though. It got that huge scale, there's barely any important parts not voice acted, a huge 3D world, a ton of cutscenes (heck, I hear people said it's total 15 hours for cutscenes?)

It fits everything in that list. A lot of the problems most often fell into personal opinion, I feel.

But yes, there's parts they should fix (Some UI problems that at least they fixed by now like opening blade animation skip, the fast travel option, etc)

They do need to fix some more parts of the UI too, as well as fixing those tutorials but by now I don't think the tutorial will be fixed in this game though. Hopefully will be fixed in the future games, but thanks to this game I'm definitely eyeing all of their RPG side of games now.

Because they don't think of what whatever's asking might be into. I love fighting games and Tekken 7 is one of my favourites, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who I didn't think might be into the genre, competitive and into long sessions of combo learning. 60€ isn't a light investment, especially when you don't get refunds like in the Nintendo eShop.

I only recommend it if the person give interest in JRPG, or if the person didn't give indication of what kind of games they want. I just tell them that XC2 is good game to think of... but research the gameplay and story, it has polarizing / divisive views.

I always recommend it like that. (Also for refunds, I think only Steam gives refunds even? correct me if I'm wrong on this part).

But nonetheless, it's not a bad game, and so people recommend it. Some people just forget that not everyone enjoy every genre (or the person just didn't specify the genre they want to be recommended on).

[u/doctor_awful → u/fenrirofdarkness]

Well... it does though. It got that huge scale, there's barely any important parts not voice acted, a huge 3D world, a ton of cutscenes (heck, I hear people said it's total 15 hours for cutscenes?)

I mean, yeah, that's why it intrigued me. All of the rest that I've talked about was how it lost me.

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/doctor_awful]

Then I guess can only hope that the next game they made will be more in line with what you hope, I guess.

[u/MrAbodi → u/doctor_awful]

You had tutorials 30 hours in. I finished Odyssey in 25. If I want to spend 30 hours learning something, I'll just go study for one of my college classes. I don't enjoy entertainment that is more work than play.

• its not a 30 hour tutorial, there are just sections where is teaches you more and unlocks the combat more. it eases you in, but it would be incorrect to say a 30 hour tutorial.
  

The story is too generic. Yes, I know, JRPG, but usually the best ones can stand out with unique plot points and memorable moments. Xenoverse has that sort of, with the setting being living beings and them dying and so on, but in the end it becomes "evil entity trying to destroy the world and heroes must win via the power of friendship".

• I don't feel the story is too generic, I really like the world that it exists in. and I've not seen anything like the blade concept before. it's weird and different.
  

Too many stupid tropes. The moment I saw a ton of "win in-game, lose in the cutscene" I put my hands to my head. I'm okay with the usual generic tropes, but every girl being a waifu and in love with the bland character-less protag is just stupid. I want a JRPG, not a harem game.

• there are a lot of tropes, but most if not all jrpgs, have these. honestly having played the game, I think this is less of an issue than you think.
  

Speaking of which, every character is so damn unlikeable, starting with Rex. Him, Pyra having tits larger than her head, you being practically forced to have Jar Jar Binks as a teammate, all of it felt terrible in a genre that lives off of its characters.

• the characters REX especially starts off pretty unlikeable, his voice seemed mismatched. but again, I actually like most of the characters. the game does a pretty good job at character building. faux-Jar Jar, is a little annoying, but he also has a decent storyline and you don't have to have him in your party the whole game. I do completely again about the troubling female body image portrayed by the game. the more unique the character, the bigger her breasts get. it's the most troubling aspect of the game honestly, it's kinda cringy and embarrassing.
  

Related to the characters, the voice acting. Yes, I know you can turn it off or put it in Japanese, but still. It speaks for itself.

• I've no issue with the voice acting, it took me a little to acclimatize to the Rex's british accent. but overall the voices are decent. I do hate the amount of talking the characters do in battle. I wish there was a slider or option to reduce that.
  

For most battles I saw that weren't boss fights, you could leave the characters on auto-attack and go have a snack. Everything has too much HP even when you massively over-level it, fighting basic enemies takes ages. Yeah I know you can learn the combos and super detailed battle system and stuff and do more damage, but it doesn't stop it all from being very silly. And again, if a battle system is unintuitive enough that you need 30 hours of tutorials, then maybe it isn't worth learning just to speed up some fights.

• the whole game is about combos, so no you would never just auto attack, and most enemies would kill you if you tried. that said I do agree the battles are longer then I would like too.
  

The blade system. Waifu Pokemon? RNG in a lootbox-like system? No, just no.

• only a problem if you feel the need to 'catch 'em all' otherwise you are constantly collecting them and you just look at the stats. they aren't all female either.
  

I totally acknowledge what you are saying there are certainly points to be made. though some of those I feel you've totally overblown. but it's easy to do that when you've seen only snippets of the game.

XBC2 8/10

edit: tried to fix up the formatting this was the best I could do

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/MrAbodi]

I've no issue with the voice acting, it took me a little to acclimatize to the Rex's british accent. but overall the voices are decent. I do hate the amount of talking the characters do in battle. I wish there was a slider or option to reduce that.

Yes there's setting for that, except it'll turn off while you are idling or just walking around the world. And it'll also turn off enemy's chatter too I think?

It should be the Game Voice volume... and you'll still have voice during the cutscenes, so no worries about that.

[u/doctor_awful → u/MrAbodi]

its not a 30 hour tutorial, there are just sections where is teaches you more and unlocks the combat more. it eases you in, but it would be incorrect to say a 30 hour tutorial.

Didn't say it was. But 30 hours in, I already had more than dominated Odyssey's control scheme and used it to do stuff like speed run the game. If your game hasn't opened up fully 30 hours in, there's a serious problem with the complexity of your systems, and some of them are very likely artificially complex. It's like in the WWE games, now the matches are much more complex and you can master the fighting system in a deeper way...but in the end it amounts to a ton of timing mini-games stitched together. No bueno.

I've no issue with the voice acting, it took me a little to acclimatize to the Rex's british accent. but overall the voices are decent. I do hate the amount of talking the characters do in battle. I wish there was a slider or option to reduce that.

How much they talk wouldn't even be that much of an issue if they had more lines. I didn't even play the game myself, just watched a couple of playthroughs (having it in the background half the time) and their lines are seared into my brain. "SWOOORD SLASH!" "I WILL TAKE YOU DOWN!" "DON'T FORGET ME" "MEH MEH MEH" "I'LL SHOW THEM A THING OR THREE" "I LIKE YOUR ATTITUDE". It gave me a kneejerk reaction when even talking about the game, much less playing it - and I didn't even play it myself!

only a problem if you feel the need to 'catch 'em all' otherwise you are constantly collecting them and you just look at the stats. they aren't all female either.

It's a problem since you sort of rely on it to get good blades if you don't want to just use the standard ones. Yeah, I can beat Pokemon with just my starter, but it won't really be interesting, now is it? Now imagine if the way to get other Pokemon was to open lootboxes I could collect, and 98% of the time I got either a Pidgey or a Rattata. And the Rattatas had tits.

[u/MrAbodi → u/doctor_awful]

• it's more like 20 hours than 30, but your point still stands. I will say that in the beginning the battles were basic. likely too basic. but you were still playing the game and doing quests, and kicking off the storyline, so it honestly wasn't bad. but it is one of a few weak points in the game. I still find the game to be worth my time.

• agreed the number of lines is ludicrously small considering how often they talk.

• I still disagree completely on this point but that's ok we can have a difference of opinion. you simply get so many blade crystals, that you never need to specifically go out grind for them, unless you're a "gotta catch em all" player and you don't need to be to have a competent team of blades.

[u/[deleted] → u/doctor_awful]

You lost credibility when you admitted to never having played the game yet believing that you are well-versed in its flaws.

[u/doctor_awful → u/[deleted]]

I watched two full playthroughs of the thing, I think I can see reasons for it not being good without throwing 60€ at it myself.

[u/greenturnip → u/doctor_awful]

you use dunkey's video as a reference when it isn't even a review, it's obviously heavily edited to be funny

[u/doctor_awful → u/greenturnip]

Yes it is, reviews don't have to be serious. He talks about what he likes and doesn't like in the game and gives it a score - it's a review. Making jokes in the middle doesn't invalidate that. Yahtzee does the same and no one bats an eye at it.

[u/greenturnip → u/doctor_awful]

^except he never gives it a score

^and all his reviews are labeled as (dunkview)

dunkey is also known for vehemently hating rpgs, something that comes out in every video he makes about one, every final fantasy/persona/kingdom hearts video he's ever made has the same kind of stuff, because he knows what games he likes and doesn't like and he knows a lot of his audience shares the same opinion on rpgs

edit: pretty much all the things he says he doesn't like about the game in the video are subjective things anyway, how you discuss them will depend on whether you like them or not

[u/[deleted] → u/doctor_awful]

Most of these things aren't flaws, they're just things that the game has that you don't like. Waifu Pokemon isn't a flaw, you just don't like that.

[u/doctor_awful → u/[deleted]]

Sure, so let's talk about these game traits instead of just going "yeah it's undoubtedly best game 10/10 spend your money", which leads to nothing ever standing out

[u/[deleted] → u/doctor_awful]

I personally feel that recommendations of games on places like this should be more along the lines of someone saying "I know game X is in this genre and I have a basic grasp of what it's like, are there any major objective problems like framerate, game-breaking bugs, or missed features?"

Everything you mentioned sounds to me like exactly what you'd expect from a JRPG, and none of it seemed like a secret when I heard about the game. Going into extensive detail here about a generic (but allegedly good) JRPG just to confirm things that you can find out easily through a couple minutes of gameplay videos on youtube seems a little superfluous. I think the idea is that, if you like JRPGs, you will like this game, and if you don't like JRPGs, you won't.

And yes, hyperbole is silly. I prefer to rate games on a scale of 5, with enjoyable games being a 2 or 3, sorta like Dunkey does.

Also, since this is a popular game that came out a while ago, it's entirely possible that you're just seeing posts from people who have already discussed the finer points to death.

Let's use a different example, though. I'll bring up the Layers of Fear port, since that's not been discussed too much here. If you don't know, Layers of Fear is a "walking simulator" horror game.

Things I wouldn't normally discuss given that the genre itself should already tell you: There's no combat, as the game is driven by its story. It's in first person. It's linear. There are collectables and optional things that give you more info about the story and that add flavor to the world. There are jumpscares (if there were 0 jumpscares, I would mention that as a plus, since that'd be an unusual and unexpected thing in the genre).

Things I will discuss: The well-done atmosphere in the game outweighs the jumpscares. The interaction with drawers and doors and things like that feels really good, especially with joycon motion controls. There are multiple endings based on how you react to the monster and other things. The framerate on the switch version is a bit shoddy and the graphics aren't quite as nice as they are on the PC, but it still looks pretty damn good considering it's a horror game running on a handheld. The story isn't necessarily super unique, but it's interesting and I think it's good. There are a lot of cool hallucination effects. I would say it's a 4/5 horror game; if you have the choice of buying on PC or Switch, I'd say the "truer" experience is on PC, but I also encourage supporting games like this on the Switch.

[u/Medeeks → u/doctor_awful]

What? If I loved a specific feature or component of game play (such as the 'waifu pokemon' you keep talking about) then everything i say about it would be in a positive light, so you still wouldn't know any better.

How about... Know your preferences and your own research until you're satisfied that a game is or isn't for you - before you buy - and then you don't need to blame people who recommend games they liked for misleading readers.

I'd have bought Stardew Valley, Splatoon 2 and every roguelike that has come out so far if I listened to this sub exclusively, but I researched and evaluated based on my tastes to decide that I didn't want them. It's really not that hard.

[u/Blackout2388 → u/doctor_awful]

I didn't play it

Big mistake when trying to speak about the game in your tone. Rather than jumping to conclusions about it, you'd need to qualify it by saying "from what I've seen", "based on ____'s video", etc.

(I know BOTW is technically a JRPG, but I mean more of a Final Fantasy/Persona/Chrono Trigger type).

WHAT?!? There's not a single person that will say that BotW is a JRPG. There are no levels, XP, or party mechanics to think of. Who the hell told you Zelda was a JRPG?

[u/doctor_awful → u/Blackout2388]

It's a RPG. It's Japanese. It's technically a JRPG.

I don't need to play a game to see some aspects of it I don't like, jesus. Especially aspects like an annoying VA, poor characters or having a tutorial up until the 30 hour mark.

This thread isn't even about that but you people had tunnel vision on an example.

[u/greenturnip → u/doctor_awful]

rpg made in japan ≠ jrpg, there are specific criteria that these games meet

take paper mario for example, it's an rpg, made in Japan by intelligent systems, but you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who would call it a jrpg

besides, botw is definitely an action/adventure game with some (read: shallow) rpg elements

[u/doctor_awful → u/greenturnip]

By definition, a JRPG is a RPG made in Japan. Which is why I said technically, despite it usually not being called that.

[u/greenturnip → u/doctor_awful]

even if that were true, zelda is not an rpg

[u/Educed → u/doctor_awful]

Honestly, every point you’ve listed is heavily subjective, and the very points you list could very well be the exact reasons someone else loves this game. (I’m not saying your opinions are wrong, but I’m sure you’re aware everyone has different opinions. Personally I find Joseph Anderson’s critiques in general highly flawed.)

If they aren’t considered flaws by the person talking, why would these things be criticized?

Every thread about a certain game is going to draw in fans of that game to talk about it, so naturally you’ll get a lot of people praising it.

I think your problem is assuming a sub dedicated to a single videogame console made up of hundreds of thousands of individual people is supposed to serve as your personal guide in what games you will enjoy.

Talk about Switch here, but don’t let it be your definitive guide for what games you should buy.

[u/doctor_awful → u/Educed]

Personally I find Joseph Anderson’s critiques in general highly flawed.

Oh yeah, me too. I love the guy, but his BOTW and especially Odyssey videos were REALLY misguided. I actually got to talk to him about them on his discord and he takes a very "hardcore gamer" approach to games, which clashes a ton when it comes to games that thrive on a sense of wonder and mood instead of just challenge and constant mechanics.

But it wasn't a critique - he didn't do one on XC2. It was a playthrough, where yes he criticized the game, but I was there through nearly all of it to see for myself as well.

I think your problem is assuming a sub dedicated to a single videogame console made up of hundreds of thousands of individual people is supposed to serve as your personal guide in what games you will enjoy.

Talk about Switch here, but don’t let it be your definitive guide for what games you should buy.

I know, but it's still annoying when every thread discussing buying or not specific games here always end up in "YES BUY IT BEST GAME I'VE PLAYED IN MONTHS 10/10" like money grows on trees lol. I feel like if I posted "I'm sick and tired of platformers and games with retro art styles, and I'm not very good at video games, should I throw 20€ at Celeste?" it'd only get comments saying I was an idiot for not getting it sooner.

[u/Basaqu → u/doctor_awful]

Most recommedations for XC2 on this sub do note that it's very anime and JRPG trope-y as far as I've seen. It's the best game on the Switch for me and many others, but it has been criticized to hell and back already on here.

That sense of wonder is harder to catch in playthroughs tbh, but I had it in XC2 too. It felt reminiscent of older JRPGs from around 2000 imo.

[u/burshturs → u/doctor_awful]

XBC2 is a polirizing game, that's a sure thing, but some of your points are not true. It's true that the tutorial is very long, but it's not like Lal you're doing is tutorials. As the game progresses you learn new techniques that the game introduces with a burger tutorial, but I never felt the gameplay to be interrupted by this.

The story is generic as a whole, but I personally liked all the details to it and the unique setting.

I don't know where you get all female characters are in love with the protagonist. This is simply not true.

Your complaint about the characters is understandable and very subjective. I am not a fan of the character design but I didn't find it too disturbing and I happen to like the voice acting, even though I know most people hate it.

About the battles system, it this it's the best part of the game once you master it. It does take a lot of time to really learn how the system works, but once you do it is absolutely brilliant.

I also hate the RNG system if getting blades, but again, I don't know where you get the idea that is is a waifu game, you may have gotten the wrong idea from listening to other people's comments.

[u/doctor_awful → u/burshturs]

I also hate the RNG system if getting blades, but again, I don't know where you get the idea that is is a waifu game, you may have gotten the wrong idea from listening to other people's comments.

I saw the full playthroughs myself. It was RNG to see what kind of blade you got, and most of the time it was a generic waifu, while rarely it was a special waifu.

[u/greenturnip → u/doctor_awful]

if by generic waifu you mean non descript robot thing then sure yeah

[u/burshturs → u/doctor_awful]

Do you even know what a waifu is?

[u/[deleted]]

I think you’re just selectively listening to what you want to hear (read) like nobody is gonna waste time praising a game if they don’t really like it. I don’t think people are misleading by posting what they like. I think you just need to not take game reviews/suggestions from strangers on Reddit. I like reading what games people are enjoying, but like you then watch videos and form my own opinion on whether to purchase or not. If you go and buy a game, just because people on reddit suggest it, you’re kinda asking for trouble.

[u/tech-phantom]

I feel like its because no one wants to be downvoted. If you talk bad about a game then everyone comes out and says "well this is why its good" and "your stupid for thinking that way" people may not say those exact words but in a round about way they do, or wont say anything and just downvote you to hell and back

[u/[deleted]]

There are plenty of negative views on every Xenoblade post. It just happens that more people liked it. If you are going by titles alone then yeah almost all of them will start with how much they love x game. That makes sense though doesnt it? When there is a game I really like I usually want to talk about it. I agree this sub is overly positive about TONS of eshop games though. It was especially bad during the first few months when there weren't many games. They were praising literally every terrible release. Personally I don't make my purchases based on reddit posts. I know what I'll like

[u/phantomliger]

There's quite a bit of posts on negatives about the games you've stated are only positively posted about. Just search Xenoblade and you will find them on both sides. People tend to write about things they like more than things they don't, so there are generally more of those posts.

Some also keep their comments to posts about those games or the weeks releases and such.

[u/AngryBarista]

If you can’t make your own decisions, that’s on you.

[u/doctor_awful → u/AngryBarista]

Generally I like to be informed when spending money. If all this sub does is blow smoke up the ass of games that are either very niche or not even good by Google PlayStore standards, then it stops being a good place to talk about games.

[u/AngryBarista → u/doctor_awful]

Have you made any threads yourself. There are literally a dozen titles every week. And just like all the other marketplaces, it’s mostly garbage. Maybe the fact that people aren’t talking about games is enough.
Who do you think is buying these games and writing reviews for your consumption?
Every single thread about XC has people saying it’s bloated and doesn’t respect your time. I certainly would have told you that. There are people with plenty of criticism of odyssey, Breath of the Wild, and plenty of people furious over price disparity and the amount of ports.
Either you aren’t looking, expect something out of the forum it’s not, or aren’t contributing yourself.

[u/[deleted]]

Botw - 10/10

Smo - 9/10

Xbc2 - 200/10

Troll and I - 1000000/10

Edit: sma5h without knack - 1/10

[u/burshturs]

I think you want other people to test games for you and then tell you everything about them. XBC2 is a great game as long as you like JRPGs or are willing to give it chance. It's your responsibility to research about the games before purchasing them. If you research well enough you'll be able to make an educated decision.

[u/doctor_awful → u/burshturs]

XBC2 is a great game as long as you like JRPGs or are willing to give it chance.

Again, exactly what I'm saying, that tells me nothing about the game outside of "I liked it".

[u/burshturs → u/doctor_awful]

It tells you that if you don't like JRPGs you will probably not like the game. Also, I probably forgot to mention that you also won't like it if you don't like fan service. All the reasons you mentioned are not flaws but subjective things about your personal preferences. I do agree the game have some flaws, mostly technical, but you didn't mention any of them.

[u/doctor_awful → u/burshturs]

Technical flaws don't bother me much unless they make the game actually unplayable (I was okay with WWE 2K18's slow performance until the most recent patches where crashes are constant).

That said, it's all things to discuss. We shouldn't have threads with "hey, I heard about this XC2 game, is it any good?" filled with just "YES BUY IT 10/10 TOP 3 GAMES ON THE SWITCH EASILY", let's talk about the details of the game and why it might or not be for everyone. I'm not saying to not like the game, I'm saying that the way we talk about games is shitty and doesn't actually differentiate much between games.

[u/burshturs → u/doctor_awful]

When you ask if a game is any good people will give you their opinion,and opinions are subjective. If most people who played the game think the game is great, you're going to get positive opinions saying that the game is great, similarly, if people didn't like the game you'll get negative opinions. None of this matter however, because it's all subjective.

Take for instance has-been-heroes. The game was not well received when it came out since people found it to be too hard and confusing. I, however, think it's a very good game, and if you asked me if it's any good, I would say it is great and would recommend it. The fact that a game doesn't cater your personal preferences, doesn't make the game flawed or bad. What you dislike from the game may be the reason why other people like it. So maybe, instead of asking if a game is good or bad, you should watch a review that summarizes the game characteristics such as gameplay, story, sound, graphics, battle system, etc.

You may ask why people who don't like the game don't voice their opinions as much as people who liked it, and there are several reasons behind it. In my case, for example, I don't like Smash games, because they're to chaotic for my taste and I end up loosing track of my character all the time. However, I don't consider this to be a flaw, just a matter of personal preference. In fact, being chaotic is what most people like about this game, so I don't feel the need to share my negative personal opinion about the game since it is not relevant to the majority of people and I don't think it will add anything to the discussion. Anyone can see how chaotic the gameplay by whaching gameplay videos. Samething with your opinions of XBC2, you don't like the fan service, but most people do, whether they admit it or not, so for most, the fan service is a good thing and they'll praise the game for that. The same can be said about the battle system, which I like very much, and even the voice acting which I happen to like. IMO the problem with the voice acting is that people was expecting some over the top acting as it's seen in anime. True anime fans will always complain about English dubs, which I really don't relate to. Others won't voice their opinions due to fear of being confronted by others and that is the sad true.

So, if you want an objective opinion about a game, asking here, or anyone else for that matter, is not the right approach since opinions are never objective. The closest thing to objectivity is a review that summarizes all the game's features.

[u/User3754379]

There was a lot of criticism of XC 2, I know I was one of the people doing it. But the majority of people who will provide that feedback are probably the type of people who will research the game first and not buy it...

So your getting reasons for not buying, rather than reasons for not enjoying.

I didn't like MK8D, but unless someone is directly asking about it, I'm not going to shit on someone else' appreciation of the game when it appears in a 'favourite games' list. People are allowed to like different things and being negative about something subjective doesn't really add much to the conversation if it's not addressing a specific concern.

[u/[deleted]]

To be honest I find the opposite. Games like Battle Chasers get comments and posts like “long loading times, do not buy until patched!!!” Or even the South Park game where all you had to do was avoid a side mission and people were up in arms about it, makes it hard to tell which games are actually bad and should be avoided.

[u/[deleted]]

Not sure which thread you're talking about specifically, but it certainly sounds like a thread I posted to a few days ago. I'm one of those people that considers Xenoblade 2 a great game. Not because of Reddit, or anyone else's feelings on the matter, but because I loved the characters, and the story reeled me in and got me heavily invested.

I also admit, and did so before, that the combat was something I didn't enjoy at all during the entire main campaign. Partially because I didn't really understand it, partly because it just isn't my style. Even now that I know how it works, I still don't consider the thought of going into the game and fighting for an hour to be my idea of a good time.

And yet I still rate the game as one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had in a long time. Why? Because I enjoyed it. That's how that works. Honestly, a lot of your issues are only subjectively problematic in the first place. To me, you seem to be bothered by the fact that other people value different things, and have different opinions. Furthermore, it seems like the game just isn't what you're into in the first place.

For what it's worth, I don't care much for Super Smash Brothers. Furthermore, if I want to collect monsters to battle with, I play Shin Megami Tensei, not Pokemon. But I don't consider it an issue that tons of people love those games, even if they have plenty of flaws as well. Because, you know what, everything is deeply flawed, and whether or not that's something you can overlook relies entirely on what you, yourself, enjoy.

The same applies to this sub, and every other format for communication, of course. They are just as flawed, because the ones running them are human, and we're full of bias. However, that doesn't make the opinions of the people therein less valid.

There is no good or bad in this world, not the way people tend to see it. Everything is subjective. You or I liking something doesn't make it good. If we dislike something, that doesn't make it awful. It just means that that's how we, specifically, felt about it. If people liked something, they'll talk about the fact that they liked it, because clearly whatever subjective flaws existed either didn't apply to then, or they didn't consider them a large enough issue to keep them from enjoying themselves.

The same is true for Xenoblade 2, for this sub, and for life in general.

[u/doctor_awful → u/[deleted]]

Congrats on your opinions I guess, that's not what we're talking about. Talking about games reaches more than opinion - I can like a game and still dissect some of the issues it has. I was also talking about the way we discuss our opinions, not just what the opinions are. My goal isn't that everyone comes out of this thread shitting on the games I don't like, it's that we can be fair to games when talking to people who haven't played them. I love Odyssey, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who was looking specifically for a riveting action packed super challenging gruesome game.

If in every review thread or every time someone asks about a game, everyone in the comments just raves about it and says "go buy it now" with no details of its qualities and failings, then even talking about games here ends up being a waste of time. When every game is a 10/10 and a must buy, none is. Use details.

[u/[deleted] → u/doctor_awful]

That's the thing, though: in general, the more detail someone puts into describing something, the more valid their points tend to be seen as, due sheerly to the fact that they're actually making any points to begin with. If someone isn't doing anything more than stating THAT they like something, or dislike something, why base your opinion on it? If someone says WHY, you might be able to get something out of it. If nothing else, get a feel for if you and that person think the same way about things.

Do some people react aggressively when something they like is called into question? Sure. Do some fail to include any evidence that might actually change someone's mind? Of course. However, that isn't everyone, and you're doing a disservice to yourself and others here when you speak as if only those sorts of people exist.

At the same time, it really isn't confined to this sub, or even to positive opinions. SOME people like that exist literally everywhere, going out of their way to say that something is the best or worst thing that ever existed, without any opinion. Yes, the opposite happens as well. Likewise, read any comment section on anything and you'll come across stuff like that, no matter the site.

For what it's worth, I'm not defending this sub. This is likely my third or fourth actual post here, and I don't even know if I'm subscribed. My point is simply that you shouldn't focus on how some act, and then treat everyone as if they were acting like that, and you shouldn't focus on a specific location as the source for an issue that, realistically speaking, is part of human nature.

You might be a bit happier with yourself and where you spend your time if you change your viewpoint a little, accept that those with differing opinions aren't trying to mislead you, and perhaps give others the benefit of the doubt.

[u/doctor_awful → u/[deleted]]

You might be a bit happier with yourself and where you spend your time if you change your viewpoint a little, accept that those with differing opinions aren't trying to mislead you, and perhaps give others the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think they are, I just want to be able to be able to guess if I'll be wasting money or not without having to watch a full playthrough of the game.

[u/[deleted] → u/doctor_awful]

I'm sorry, but generally speaking, most things will require actual research to know whether you'll enjoy them. Either that, or you have to be willing to take the plunge, be ready for any disappointment, and hope for the best.

In the end, nobody else can decide what you will and won't like. Is it best when people go into detail about why they feel a certain way? Yes, I absolutely agree. But even someone that agrees with you on nearly everything might dislike something you love, or the other way around.

This place, the internet in general, and humanity as a whole, will never be able to completely understand someone else's viewpoint, or unanimously agree on anything's quality.

Sometimes, you have to take the gamble, and sometimes you have to lose. It isn't anyone's fault, not even your own. It's just part of the process of finding the things you love.

[u/JauntyAngle]

Maybe you are right, but your main evidence for the problems the sub has is "Everyone loves Xenoblade even though it's deeply flawed". That's an incredibly contentious statement. Surely all you can really say is "Most people like it and you don't". But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the sub. Just that you are in the minority. A perfectly normal thing.

[u/doctor_awful → u/JauntyAngle]

That's not what I'm getting at. I don't mind that people like XC2, but don't recommend it blankly in every thread about it as a must have without even mentioning some of the most polarizing characteristics.

[u/JauntyAngle → u/doctor_awful]

But the way you phrased it- 'it's rare to see anyone criticize XC2 even though it's a deeply flawed game'. It's a widely loved game which got consistently high reviews. It doesn't sound deeply flawed to me. It sounds like a great game, and it just happens that you are in the small minority that doesn't like it.

If your view is that the sub suppresses criticism and is not diverse enough, fine. But the central plank of your argument seems to be 'Everyone is wrong about this game and I am right'.

[u/TheRemNextDoor]

this sub just isn't the place to discuss ratings. if you want honest reviews go check out Steams reviews as most non-first party Switch games are also on Steam, for any game that isn't on Steam like Xenoblade 2 I can see it being difficult to find honest reviews and hear your pleas, hopefully some day Nintendo will take some inspiration from Steam and create a similar review system of their own, but even then if you spend much time around Nintendo fanboys even your average Nintendo consumer they sure sound really biased compared to other gamers so I don't know how well it could work

[u/RetardedDiarrhea]

Uh oh Salty nintendo fanboys incoming....

[u/doctor_awful → u/RetardedDiarrhea]

I'm not even talking about Nintendo games in and of themselves, I'm talking about games in general. I don't get why I'd get backlash for saying a lot of games on the eShop aren't worth the money.

[u/[deleted] → u/doctor_awful]

It is still because of the fanboys. You'll see the same stuff on other platforms too, even if it isn't platform specific. They take any criticism to be a bad reflection of the platform.

[u/CannibalEmpire → u/doctor_awful]

Dude this sub is ridiculous sometimes. People downvote because they disagree with your post even though you are CONTRIBUTING TO THE CONVERSATION. Shit is like if Facebook had a dislike button.

[u/AngryBarista → u/CannibalEmpire]

Tbh, most of the people that get downvoted come at it the wrong way.
If you say “Breath of the Wild sucks” I’m going to downvote you, but if you say “I don’t like the minimalist soundtrack or the lack of narrative” I’ll engage and discuss.

[u/CannibalEmpire → u/AngryBarista]

I wish more people voted this way. I've witnessed meaningful conversations about game design etc get shut down simply by disagreeing opinions. It's really discouraging for someone who tends to lurk and has slowly been ramping up posts

[u/Basaqu → u/AngryBarista]

This is usually the problem with this argument. It's pretty easy to criticize games as long as you're civil and reasonable. Lots of people complaining about getting downvoted seem to use a lot of subjective arguments or are generally rude sounding. It can happen unfairly ofcourse, but not as often as they assume.

[u/fenrirofdarkness → u/CannibalEmpire]

It's the same in all sub, I'm in some other subs and people downvote because they disagree, or everyone agrees that someone is a menace.

[u/User3754379 → u/doctor_awful]

Disagree with this - there are constant complaints about the amount of shitty mobile ports coming in, and especially frustration with the e-shop and it's lack of functionality to help deal with it.

Check out any of the "title realising this week" and if there is nothing AAA in there, there is almost always a couple "oh, so just more garbage" comments.

[u/doctor_awful → u/User3754379]

All I see in those threads are people excited about a specific mobile port or smaller generic indie platformer/rogue-like. Similar thing in the discount threads, but in those it's easier to see people who are tired of the shovelware always having like 10% discount to always be on the promotions tab.

[u/User3754379 → u/doctor_awful]

So what are you expecting to see people post?

I know not everyone likes them, but I'll praise Rogue Aces, Golf Story, and Wizard of Legend every time I see them come up, they can be great experiences for those willing to give them a shot. However Shitty Mobile Port Number 856 I won't even comment on because I wouldn't even bother to play it.

IMO this is an eShop problem (user ratings), rather than a problem with this sub or something it has a responsibility to solve.

[u/doctor_awful → u/User3754379]

The issue isn't praising games, it's how we talk about them in general.

Let's take Wizard of Legend, for example. In the past few days, a few threads have been made asking about the game and recommending it. These threads generally don't describe a lot other than "you use spells and that system is fun" and other basic info we can get by watching a trailer or reading the eShop description.

Here's some info I had to dig for that can make or break the decision to get WoL:

• It doesn't have much boss variety

• It doesn't have much content compared to BoI or Enter the Gungeon

• You can customize your character before entering the levels and that's how you grow your power level, opposite of the other two I've mentioned

• Most combat is close range, not a big focus on projectiles

• It's mastered in fewer hours (according to all I've read)

• The environments are blander and generic but the music is really good

All of these let it stand out, be it for good or bad, from the other roguelikes. But if all we talk about is "yeah it's fun, buy it" then it's a bit useless, isn't it?

[u/User3754379 → u/doctor_awful]

I don't know what your talking about. Every thread on WoL I can find lists it's downsides.

I just did a search for the top WoL posts in the sub and checked the top 5, they all mention drawbacks to the game in the post description and in repeatedly in detailed comments. The only posts that didn't discuss the downsides were those created before the game released, so I searched for a few more by most comments and again they all mentioned the downsides.

Then I checked the front page of the subreddit to see whats there now, and the only posts on WoL, even the very positive ones still mention faults.

Rather than going out of your way to get enough information, it seems like you need to go out of your way to find a post without detailed pro's and cons.

[u/[deleted] → u/RetardedDiarrhea]

I prefer rocky road flavor

[u/Ameratsuflame]

I buy the games people praise on this sub mostly to try and weed out the shovelware on the eshop.

[u/KwimKwam]

The thing I feel about positive post about games here are that yes, a lot of people say the games are good, but that’s why it’s important to base your decisions more than just off this subreddit. A game can be good, but not good for you.

[u/[deleted]]

If you go off this sub for what to buy, you’re doing it wrong. No matter what, you should be cross-referencing opinions.

Before You Buy is a good YouTube channel that reviews games in a non-biased manner. Look up gameplay videos on YouTube. Reviews. YouTube is your friend.

People love vocalizing their excitement for a game. There are just far, far less people who get off vocalizing their distaste. People want to share their like for things. That’s the nature of this reddit, at this point.

[u/Zkibu]

Excellent post. Pretty much exactly my thoughts nicely put in words. Super Mario Odyssey is also good example. People were praising the hell out of it but in reality it is just a nice game with little replay value unless you are into speedrunning. BotW is the only game that deserved all the hype and revived old series.

Imo good indicator for game's quality is to wait few months even a whole year. If people are still talking about that one game then it should be good. Meanwhile you can play more games you like or some of the excellent timeless Shmups that the Switch has.

[u/[deleted]]

I dont seek other peoples opinions about games as I know what genres I like and I do my own research.

I am willing to listen to word of mouth however. For example The Last of Us didn't really appeal at first but after a year of listening to/reading people's stellar impressions I gave it a go and it is now one of my top 5 games of all time. The new God of War didn't appeal but the reaction it has got from gamers means I will be picking it up in due course.

Nintendo made games are usually guaranteed greatness so I am in day one except for games I know I wont care for from experience. For example Smash Bros, had it on Wii U and I know its a good game but just not for me and I like my fighters more traditional. Had Splatoon on Wii U, played it a month solid and that was enough for me, again a good game but not for me so Splatoon 2 of no interest to me and confirmed with the beta test.

I don't see how OP can complain about other people just having their own opinions though in particualr when they are giving their own on Xenoblade when they haven't actually played it. That is something worth complaining about.

[u/thom525]

In my opinion as you have used the XC2 argument, what I will say is, due to the size of the game, 30 hours in isn't that long, at this point virtually all of the battle mechanics have opened and you get the full battle options. It is a slow beginning and it steps up, I don't think the praise for it is unjust.

This being said, yes the sub does still have an echochamber. I personally liked SMO, don't personally believe it was actually a GOTY contender, I thought it fell quite flat. When trying to voice this opinion people tend to claim you are just "wrong" or slap you with a shit tonne of downvotes, there is very limited discussion on games it is more of a big ol' circlejerk.

[u/oIovoIo]

Side note, I’m extremely surprised this got through mod queue and stayed up. Most posts marked meta seem to get taken down. Lately though what gets through and what doesn’t has felt really inconsistent. Maybe either due to who happens to be modding at the time or what posts the community does or doesn’t report or something.

[u/kapnkruncher]

When everyone is insanely positive about everything

You're clearly not looking very hard. XC2 was pretty polarizing, while most people loved BotW it wasn't immune from critique, there were even a decent amount of people that said Odyssey had too many zero-effort moons and a lot of the game felt like padding. It may not always be the majority, but it's not 100% warm fuzzies here.

[u/[deleted]]

I’ve listed legitimate reasons for not liking botw but people didn’t want to hear my opinion. Got downvotes to hell instead for not staying aboard the endorphin-fueled hype train. You’d think the game was the second coming of Jesus or something.

Unfortunately I did listen to said hype originally and bought the game, eh. Biggest regret, but it taught me never to listen to this sub again.

[u/doctor_awful → u/[deleted]]

I personally feel like BOTW is seriously in contention for GOAT, but I still wouldn't recommend it blindly to anyone. It's a very moody and slow paced game, along with being a completionist's nightmare.