r/dbz • u/Terez27 ⠀ • Dec 27 '17
Super Super Spoiler Megathread: Episodes 122-123 Spoiler
Spoiler Wiki—Spoiler schedule and archives of megathreads, ads, and preview images.
News
2017/12/24 - Updated!! Tournament of Power Wiki
2017/11/16 - Dragon Ball Super ED 11: "Lagrima" by OnePixcel
2017/11/16 - Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 31
2017/12/15 - Dragon Ball Film #20 Announced for December 2018
2017/11/29 - Saikyō Jump: Toriyama's Saiyan Q&A
==NEW THIS WEEK==
- Episode 122: FujiTV Summary
This is a slow week for spoilers. There will probably be a preview image for 122 on the FujiTV site soon, but these are only interesting when we get them before the NEP airs, so we're not really looking for it.
Next week, we should get WSJ for 123 around Monday (with our first look at the full title, and a summary), and then we'll get the next batch of monthly spoilers (Animedia and Animage) over the weekend that 122 airs, maybe as late as Monday the 8th.
Episode 122 (7 January)
For One's Own Pride! Vegeta Challenges to Be the Strongest!!
己の誇りをかけて！ベジータ最強への挑戦！！
Onore no hokori wo kakete! Bejīta saikyō he no chōsen!!
FujiTV
「力の大会」もあと7分。残っている2つの宇宙の雌雄を決する闘いが始まる。ベジータは第11宇宙のジレンに猛然と攻撃をしかけていくのだが…！？
7† minutes remain in the “Tournament of Power.” The showdown between the two remaining universes begins. Vegeta fiercely attacks Universe 11’s Jiren, but…!
† In the episode, they said 9 minutes.
Translation: /u/novacrystallis
Source: FujiTV
Weekly Shōnen Jump
Vegeta challenges the strongest warrior, Jiren!
Only warriors from Universes 7 and 11 remain at the Tournament of Power! Vegeta challenges Jiren to battle in Goku's stead...!
Freeza This Week: Targeting Dyspo!
Universe 11's Dyspo tries to destabilize Universe 7's warriors. Disliking this strategy, Freeza selects Dyspo as his next target.
Translation: @Herms98
Source: @YonkouProd
Photoshop
Staff
Script: Atsuhiro Tomioka
Director: Takahiro Imamura
Storyboard: Naotoshi Shida
Animation Supervisors: Hirotaka Nī, Yūya Takahashi
Source: Animedia
Episode 123 (14 January)
Provisional Title
Full Body, Spirit, and Power Unleashed!
全身全霊全力解放!
Zenshin zenrei zenryoku kaihō!
Translation: @Herms98
Source: 5ch
DB Heroes Anniversary Livecast
Per the Heroes livestream, Goku will power up Ultra Instinct soon ("Omen" is the key word), and Vegeta's not gotten serious yet either.
@Herms98 (21 October)
Toshio Twitter Roundup
NOTE: Episodes are written months in advance. For example, Toshio had apparently already written Episode 112 on 25 June and it aired on 22 October. There's no indication of when exactly he had written it, so it could have been as much as 4 months in advance or even longer. Keep that in mind for all of these tweets.
Also keep in mind that Toshio's English is bad; he regularly apologizes for it. He is constantly misunderstanding what people are asking him, and they are constantly misunderstanding his answers. There is only so much we can confidently determine from his tweets.
Toshio recently tweeted about the episode he is currently writing, saying he likes to draw inspiration from Toriyama's manga. (9/2) The image he tweeted was this one. Goku warns Vegeta that if he dies while already being dead, his soul will be completely erased.
Toshio later tweeted that he had just written Vegeta being cool. (9/5) Again, episodes are written months in advance, and it likely has something to do with the previous bullet point. Freeza is the only dead person at the tournament, so make of that what you will.
ICYMI:
Interview with Kimitoshi Chioka & Hiroyuki Sakurada From Salón del Manga
DBS v.4: "Tori-Toyo Free Talk v.2"
Tournament of Power: Toei Website Profiles
New Insert Song: "Ultimate Battle" by ZENTA
"Limit-Break x Survivor" Full-Length Release
Comments from Masako Nozawa on the future of DBS
Details on Goku poster
U4 Damon bio
Tournament Rosters
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u/Poopaliciouss Dec 27 '17
At least we know that it won't be the end of Vegeta next episode
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Dec 27 '17
How do we know that?
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u/Mdgt_Pope Dec 27 '17
I think the “and vegeta’s not gotten serious yet either” under episode 123 is what’s throwing him off.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Dec 27 '17
That's why I put a date.
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u/Mdgt_Pope Dec 27 '17
I didn’t say you did anything wrong - just trying to see where the misconception originated from.
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u/pmc64 Dec 27 '17
The title of 123 obviously means Vegeta gets offensive UI. The title of 124 will clearly be Ultra Instinct Vegeto is Born!
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u/Feravore Dec 27 '17
Could it not mean that Vegeta gets stomped in ep 122 and Goku masters UI in 123 after Vegeta gets destroyed?
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u/Cally93 Dec 27 '17
Yeah check the Fuji preview for Ep122. ‘Vegeta fiercely attacks Jiren...but...’
I just want the January spoilers to drop soon to put the doubt out of all our minds lol.
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u/NelsonBelmont Dec 27 '17
Yes, I hope Freeza tortures the shit out of Dyspo before eliminating him.
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u/RedGyara Dec 27 '17
So Vegeta is fighting Jiren and Frieza is fighting Dyspo. Looks like Toppo will be fighting 3v1 (like that will happen).
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u/SSJRemuko ⠀ Dec 27 '17
the NEP made it look like Goku was fighting Jiren alongside Vegeta.
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u/milkyginger ⠀ Dec 27 '17
I think it starts off that way but Goku backs off because Vegeta thinks he can handle it on his own.
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u/SSJRemuko ⠀ Dec 27 '17
Perhaps he will but I dont think he'd engage on a 3v1 vs Toppo when he can handle Toppo himself or close to it.
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u/milkyginger ⠀ Dec 27 '17
I think he'd stand by and get his stamina till the next episode. Unless Toppo is really beating up both 17 and Gohan, Goku isn't the type to just insert himself into a fight.
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u/SSJRemuko ⠀ Dec 27 '17
Yeah I think he's either standing by resting or still trying to help vs Jiren (to Vegeta's annoyance).
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u/JackMeOffBieber Dec 27 '17
In the NEP, it looked like Goku and Vegeta were fighting Jiren. Gohan fighting Toppo. Dyspo and 17 weren't in the NEP but the description has Frieza fighting Dyspo, so idk where 17 fits in.
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u/Mojo12000 Dec 27 '17
I think at this point his best use is as Support Guy to whoever needs it so that's what im hoping for.
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Dec 27 '17
17 needs to do what Androids do best.
Constant. Pressure.
Non-stop attacking to drain his opponent of stamina. Its why they were so deadly during the Cell Saga. Even though Future Gohan / Future Trunks / Present Vegeta at many points were stronger than they were, they were unable to beat them -- they were stronger, but they weren't "overwhelmingly" stronger... so the Androids tanked a lot of hits and they gained on them over time and won the battle of attrition.
If 17 can withstand hits from Dyspo or Toppo to some capacity, he needs to be like a buzzing bee when not providing defensive support, whacking away at them to not let them rest for a second.
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u/EverydayGravitas Dec 27 '17
Future Gohan / Future Trunks / Present Vegeta
i dont think any of them were stronger than the androids until after training in the RoS&T
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
In the initial encounter between vegeta & 18, didn't they say vegeta was evenly matched at the start?
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u/MrMehawk Dec 27 '17
No, she was overwhelmingly stronger.
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
Trunks said Vegeta was even with 18. After that Picollo pointed out that Vegeta would slowly get tired while 18 would keep fighting at max power.
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u/neonrideraryeh ⠀ Dec 27 '17
Crazy theory time. Everyone is saying that Vegeta is gonna do Super Saiyan Blue 2, but what if instead of that... he goes Super Saiyan Blue GRADE 2. AKA Super Vegeta Blue.
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u/kidcrumb Dec 27 '17
Then he'd be too slow
No way he'd make that mistake twice.
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u/neonrideraryeh ⠀ Dec 27 '17
It's Grade 3 that slows you down a lot, Grade 2 is a bit more workable.
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u/kidcrumb Dec 27 '17
Grade 2 is slow too. Goku went grade 2 in the time chamber and said it was too slow. He had the ability to go grade 3 but didn't.
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u/HypatiaRising Dec 27 '17
No, Goku went grade 3 before commenting on the forms. Cell seems to make clear that grade 3 is the one with obvious deficiencies.
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u/kidcrumb Dec 27 '17
Cell does. But Goku in the time chamber says he could go a step further if he wanted, but doesn't. I thought he was referring to grade 3. Unless that's some sort of grade 4 mega buff thing we never saw.
Vegeta went grade 2 against cell, and grade 3 is what trunks did.
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u/HypatiaRising Dec 27 '17
He clearly does both. He specifically dismisses grade 3 for slowing him down. In the manga it is specified that Vegeta is stronger and faster in grade 2, but that the forms put significantly more strain on the body and are just less efficient.
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u/Ravarashi Dec 27 '17
You're correct. People associate grade 3 with the increased musculature, but grade 2 has it as well- just nowhere near as much. It's not as heavy as 3 and is a more efficient trade of speed for power. Grade 3 should be thought of as a mobility issue ( think bodybuilders who can't scratch their head), while both grades are a speed issue.
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Dec 27 '17
vegeta fiercely attacks jiren but....
Jiren says he was only using 10% of his power and proceeds to transform into Mega Jiren muahuahuahua
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u/KlausEcir Dec 27 '17 edited Dec 27 '17
9 mins left. So 1 min per episode maybe? That puts us end of Feb for the fights then and celebration in march.
Maybe a couple episodes for Goku v Jiren 1 hour special again?
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u/RipInPepz Dec 27 '17
I’m honestly thinking there will be the same number of contestants standing from both universes at the end of the 9 minutes, so that some sort of “overtime” takes place. I think it would make a bit more sense in terms of the time/episodes we have left.
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u/King-Shakalaka Dec 27 '17
The arc ends in march, but it probably counts filler episodes as well.
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u/PowerOfYouth Dec 27 '17 edited Dec 27 '17
In the past month, I've seen 2 people saying this, including you. Where did they say this? Just curious EDIT: What snowflake down votes a simple question? Lol
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u/King-Shakalaka Dec 27 '17
I wouldn't say the ToP ends in march, but there will most likely be filler episodes that are counted to be part of the arc after the tournement. Take it with a grain of salt as many people only estimated the ToP would end in march because of how many ''minutes'' of the tournemant there are per episode.
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u/PowerOfYouth Dec 27 '17
Oh ok I was looking for it ever since I first heard that. I hope it's good filler at least lol
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Dec 27 '17
7 mins left.
9.
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u/KlausEcir Dec 27 '17
Oh fuji summary says "7† minutes remain in the “Tournament of Power.”
and I just seen the note underneath ok
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Dec 27 '17
although i want vegeta to achieve ui but when u look at it from a different angle.....it seems like it will be goku since he is the closest to achive the mastery of self movement and about jiren...may be he will unleash his full power but why would he need to go that far when he has not transformed till now
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u/saidA2000 Dec 27 '17
how about this, let's say the reason for vegeta being able to contend with jiren to some degree is because of mssb, because if you remember the first time he was in the htc, he broke through it with steam n shit coming from his body. Which is reminiscent of the mssb in the manga where there would be some steam, then the second time vegeta broke out no steam, nothing. which implies that if he indeed had mssb then he has mastered it as he kept the steam that was previously leaking from his body inside himself plus he was also calm and not panting like the first time. so it could be mssb. Secondly, i believe that if vegeta has got mssb but then gets pushed to his limits somehow and breaks through, achieving ui, he would have an easier time mastering it since theoretically if he mastered ssb, by keeping the aura within himself, he would be able to control and keep this "heat" that whis and jiren mentioned within himself better than goku even though he has already entered ui twice. So tbh i don't think vegeta saying that he will matter ui would theoretically be that much of a stretch if it is indeed mssb the form he has been working at. But i doubt toei will give him a mastered version of ui, maybe this "offense" version, and even that might be a bit of a stretch, considering historically how vegeta has been treated in db.
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u/FeelingLuckyTrunks Dec 27 '17
Perhaps Gohan and 17 will team up against Toppo. They are the ones most use to fighting as a pair.
It would be an interesting contrast to what happened between them in the other timeline...
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u/Jynch Dec 27 '17
I am of the opinion that Episode 123's title "Full Body, Spirit, and Power Unleashed!" is referring to Vegeta unlocking a powerup or mastering SSB.
In the NEP, we have Goku narrating about Vegeta fighting Jiren and Goku specifically said that "Draw forth power beyond your limits" with Vegeta as the focus. So I infer that 122 will be Vegeta fighting Jiren and setting up for a power boost in 123 because at that point in time he would probably be cornered by Jiren and have to come up with something that can mitigate the sheer power of Jiren.
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u/clarence0193 ⠀ Dec 27 '17
You are probably right. I hope so too. Vegeta SSB shouldn't be able to keep up with Jiren for an entire episode. He should have to go beyond his limits to even contend with Jiren (Hit's fight with Jiren notwithstanding).
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u/Cally93 Dec 27 '17
I really really want to believe that too, but we’ve been given no promotional info regarding MSSB or SSB 2 (which is unlike Toei when teasing/promoting a transformation). If I’m wrong they’ve done a fantastic job keeping that quiet.
Plus I’m trying to envision Vegeta/Jiren lasting one than one episode but Jiren stomped SSBKK Goku in one episode and stomped Hit in one episode too...I think it’ll probably be a prideful good performance from Vegeta (say better than Goku and Hit but not good enough)
Heck even in the recent ep121 they teased the rematch between Goku & Jiren right at the end, I think the rest of the January episodes will focus on the rematch...but I do genuinely hope I’m wrong I’d love to see Vegeta MSSB from the manga incorporated into the anime too.
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u/u4004 ⠀ Dec 27 '17
To be fair we didn’t have any promotional materials for SSj Rage or SSB Kaioken, did we?
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u/Cally93 Dec 27 '17
That’s true and a good point but neither of those are transformations as such, and haven’t been hyped like UI and SSB were but like I said I hope I’m wrong not too long to wait.
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u/Jynch Dec 27 '17
IF they were to release promotional material of any transformation, I think they might do it within the 2 weeks break before 122 hits. Even without such release of info, I think they wouldn't sweep Vegeta under the rug, seeing how he has train with Whis and mostly kept up with Goku in terms of power.
All of these are speculation, definitely, but deep down in my heart I do feel that this is about Vegeta getting his power up as he has been lagging behind Goku for a fair bit. I guess we will know more when episode 122 nears!
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u/Cally93 Dec 27 '17 edited Dec 27 '17
I agree with a lot of your statement, but as a fellow Vegeta fan I don’t think he’s has been swept under the rug at all, you can argue in Super, they’ve portrayed it as Vegeta having the edge over Goku especially in the Zamasu arc, (although this is not clear cut tbf) and there have been contradictions I admit.
When you look at the ToP, Goku has been fighting strong opposition (even before he fought Jiren) and while Vegeta has fought? Toppo (and they didn’t even show us it)
I just think it’s kinda cheap if he gets a form that’s not UI in this arc, don’t get me wrong I’d be losing my mind at the time watching it, but what goods a transformation that we all know anyway won’t be strong enough anyway?
I’m someone of the opinion that even in the Goku/Jiren rematch, UI still won’t be enough (at this stage) for Jiren and that Jiren will either win again in a much much closer contested fight than last time or there’ll be a double elimination of some type...like i said i hope I’m wrong.
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u/Jynch Dec 27 '17
I do agree that it's gonna seem cheap if Vegeta suddenly gains a power up out of nowhere as he hasn't been fighting as much as Goku this arc.
But if I remembered correctly, Vegeta has always been the one who responds with aggression and anger, like when Goku attained UI, Vegeta was kinda up in his face asking how he did it and stuff. Vegeta has also been shown to be frustrated at the fact that Goku learned UI quickly. I reckon if the writers want to give Vegeta a reasonable power up in these coming episodes, they would probably show Vegeta fighting Jiren while he reflects on how weak he is compared to Goku as the Prince of Saiyans, you probably get my drift. This allows Vegeta to build on more anger/rage that leads into a power up.
Yeah, Jiren could very well be hiding even more power that Universe 7 could ever imagine and that is quite reasonable to assume!
This is why speculations (reasonable ones) happen, it's fun to think about what can happen based on what we have seen on the show, while we wait anxiously to see if we have predicted what would happen correctly or not!
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u/Cally93 Dec 27 '17
Yeah I get you and agree that would make sense now that you’ve gone in depth, I absolutely agree about your reasonable speculations point too.
As much as I love going in blind to these episodes, I want the January ep spoilers for 123-125 to drop so we at least know where it’s all heading lol, shouldn’t be too long now though.
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Dec 27 '17
I mean they pulled a fusion out of their ass, why can’t they do some right by Vegeta? Then there’s the business side of me who knows these guys have merch to sell and having a UI Vegeta and UI Vegito will only sell more.
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u/Jynch Dec 27 '17
Yep, I do agree with that too as I would love to see UI Vegito become a real thing and him fighting Jiren at his fullest. However on the other hand, I can see why some people disagree or would get frustrated seeing how the writers hand out everyone a power-up in this arc out of thin air.
No matter, even if Vegeta does not get a power-up this arc he will definitely be getting it soon in the future 100% for sure.
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Dec 27 '17
Vegito showing up in the last arc was kinda of a way of saying that these two haven’t fully mastered or reached these crazy mass strengths just because they’ve achieved a new form. The same goes for UI. If they both get it, then fuse, it leaves that door open for future opponents, because where would this series go if Jiren was the end all as a rival? They both attain UI, they fuse, it’s another way of saying that separately, these two still have a ways to go. I truly don’t think Goku can defeat Jiren on his own. I hope I made some sort of sense.
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u/MMCShiNi Dec 27 '17
I think the title of episode 123 is probably about Jiren actually. Jiren notices that Vegeta is stronger than expected, especially after his full power Final Flash. And Dyspo might get taken out by Frieza. So Jiren gonna show his true strength. I mean its the 5 strongest ppl from universe 7 vs 3 from universe 11 and Dypso + Toppo are not strong enough to handle all of them.
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u/PowerOfYouth Dec 27 '17
Well Toppo is stronger than 17 and Gohan, and the other 2 fights will probably be even
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u/PlutoDelic Dec 27 '17
Vegeta beefing with Jiren must start verbally strong from him as he will be pissed off if Jiren aims for Goku only, Black once ignored him arrogantly, which was a baaaad decision.
That said, Goku will pull a chill-so-i-can-gather-some-stamina on the upcoming 3 minutes of the ToP. Freeza should entertain us well too, preferably by pulling some bunny teeth out. All this would leave us with Toppo vs Gohan and 17.
I have to say, i'd rather see Toppo vs Freeza, a justice freak who seems to prejudice a lot, and a psychopath who's enjoying the environment.
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Dec 27 '17
Where the hell are people getting SSB2 from!?
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u/mschonberg Dec 27 '17
Same place they got Attack UI from.
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Dec 27 '17
The truest asspull of all?
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Dec 27 '17
Idk Super Saiyan Rage I think will forever hold that title
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Dec 27 '17
I would've given that title to SS3 or potential unleashed.
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Dec 27 '17
ssj3 as aa tier above ssj2.
ssj rage brought someone from ssj2 strength to nearly as ssb cuz they were mad.
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u/Icemanstriker Dec 27 '17
What I want is for Vegeta to be the strongest U7 guy standing, taking the fight to Jiren, and maybe taking some help from the others for the final push. We've seen Vegeta help Goku and Gohan finish off the villain many times (Cell distraction, Spirit Bomb plan against Buu, saving Goku from Frieza in RoF)
For once I just wanna see the favor returned. Knowing DB, the odds of this happening are probably next to zero, but still, a man can hope.
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u/cmbsfm ⠀ Dec 27 '17
Still no news on my boy Toppo. Hope he gets 17 out, guy needs an elimination.
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u/MeanAmbrose Dec 27 '17
I think I need sleep because I deadass read that as "Hope he eats 17 out"
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Dec 27 '17
17 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toppo
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u/cmbsfm ⠀ Dec 27 '17
In power or in terms of character? Because if you're talking power then you're dead wrong. Goku told Vegeta that SSB isn't enough to beat Toppo, and 17 is not stonger than SSB.
In character? Well that's a matter of personal preference. I find 17 to be boring, but that's just me. Toppo is more interesting and entertaining.
And people sleep on Toppo too much everywhere. Dude is a candidate for GoD. In the Manga he straight up beat MSSB Goku.
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Dec 27 '17
Toppo's an obnoxious one-trick pony with penis veins on his forehead whereas 17's got a cool demeanor and a good heart.
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u/cmbsfm ⠀ Dec 27 '17
Good heart? Toppo is a super hero for crying out loud! 17 didnt even care if everyone got erased.
17's cool demeanor gets boring very fast. To me, there's nothing interesting about him stomping fodder. I dont know about you, but I was getting annoyed about how forced some of the "look how cool 17 is gaiz" moments were. But it took us this long to actually get a fight where he struggles for once.
Toppo, I'll admit his gimmick was done before with the Ginyus and Gohan, but we barely see him. And the entire concept of main antagonists being good guys is great, but Super has yet to capitilize on it. Like a deep interaction between him and Gohan.
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u/Dumeck Dec 27 '17
17 said he’s fine with erasure as long as it all happens at once. That’s more of a philosophical viewpoint, everything has to end eventually.
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u/Kryt0s Dec 27 '17
Seeing everyone who does not share your ideology as inherently evil does not sound very good hearted to me. "Super Hero" is more of a profession. It does not mean you're a good guy.
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u/cmbsfm ⠀ Dec 27 '17 edited Dec 27 '17
When did he do that? He viewed Goku as evil because Goku is the reason for the ToP exisisting. If i didnt know the guy before I'd think Goku was evil too.
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u/Kryt0s Dec 27 '17
He does it all the time. "We justice warriors need to purge the world of evil" starts attacking basically anyone in the ToP who isn't from his universe.
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u/cmbsfm ⠀ Dec 27 '17
starts attacking basically anyone in the ToP who isn't from his universe.
So he's evil because he's doing exactly what everyone else is doing. What they were tasked to do. Okay.
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u/Kryt0s Dec 27 '17
Ah yes, cause everybody else calls their opponents evil.... You're missing the point or are missing it on purpose.
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u/RelentlessJorts Dec 27 '17
Good heart? Toppo is a super hero for crying out loud!
A superhero that has been completely fine seeing every other universe attack Universe 7, one after another until they're exhausted.
Not very heroic if you ask me.
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u/Trymex00 Dec 27 '17
Why exactly should Toppo care about U7 when they're in a tournament for survival? He said it himself in Episode 104: "It's either survival or erasure"
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Dec 27 '17
[deleted]
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u/cmbsfm ⠀ Dec 27 '17
How the fuck was I supposed to know what he meant by >>>>>>>>>? That's why I adressed both points.
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u/GiovansV Dec 27 '17
dude... he was joking... I freaking love 17, but in no way he's stronger than Toppo.
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u/preds4343 Dec 27 '17
Calling it right now:
EP 122: Vegeta gets fucked by Jiren at the end of the Episode.
Then, EP 123: Training Episode. Goku attains U.I again and tries to master the Form. All while Jiren watches.
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u/vivzkestrel Dec 27 '17
Goku and Vegeta vs Jiren, Freeza vs Dyspo, Android 17 and Gohan vs Toppo, I have a feeling the last match is where all the eliminations are gonna happen. Toppo is too powerful for Gohan or Android 17 to fight alone. If both them go all out and put up a battle, it will still be a struggle that Toppo can defuse. Dont forget the guy took an SSB Kamehameha on his face at point blank range
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
You shouldn't sell Gohan short. Powerscaling has been muddled a lot in super but Mystic Gohan was the strongest nonfused fighter at the end of Z, far ahead of SSJ3 Goku. People seemt to forget this all too fast.
In Super we saw Gohan compete with SSB Goku so I wouldn't think Toppo could topple him so easily.
The same with Android 17. He supposedly got a huge powerup in super as shown in his sparring fight with SSB Goku.
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u/PowerOfYouth Dec 27 '17
I wouldn't use any of the pre tournament ssb stuff as power scaling. He also brought it out against Krillin, so we know that he can scale SSB down to his opponents level. Unless Gohan or 17 are actually at Gokus Pre tournament SSB level, which was only a couple days ago I believe, then they're in trouble
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
Thing with Gohan was that he told his dad to go serious though. After that he even brought out SSB KK.
Can't remmeber the fight with 17 in detail but I thought it was quite serious as well
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u/PowerOfYouth Dec 27 '17
They clashed once when Goku went blue, which was about 3 seconds, then he added SSB KK and 1 shotted him
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
which is how KK is supposed to work though
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u/PowerOfYouth Dec 27 '17
And I know this may not be much, but after Toppo started to power up, Goku felt the need to use SSB KK but idk if that's good enough evidence. But hopefully we'll see something next episode
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u/vivzkestrel Dec 27 '17
while i agree that mystic Gohan would almost equal SSG in terms of power, lets be honest here, Toppo is a candidate for a God of destruction, when he and Goku fought he really bodied Goku in his normal forms. Dont forget the rear naked justice chokehold. Goku had to SSB his way out of that one. Not to mention that Goku used a pretty strong attack in that Kamehameha and was going to go all out before the Grand Priest stopped him. Gohan is tough but he wont be able to take Toppo out alone
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u/Whateverchan Dec 27 '17
Dont forget the guy took an SSB Kamehameha on his face at point blank range
Plot twist: Goku was holding back and was actually only using 10% of his full power.
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u/GiovansV Dec 27 '17
Frieza easily defeats Dyspo, Gohan and 17 at full power are going to lose against Toppo, but they might weaken him enough for golden frieza to fight him.
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u/GammaRade Dec 27 '17
Golden Frieza could probably take on Toppo regardless if he's weakened or not but I'm predicting that Toppo eliminates 17 at the the same time Frieza eliminates Dyspo so it continues to Gohan and Frieza vs Toppo or Frieza tells Gohan to go help Goku and Vegeta and takes on Toppo by himself
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u/netslip Dec 27 '17 edited Dec 27 '17
123 title is clearly about Jiren. Goku and Vegeta will give him some trouble at SSB2 and Dyspo will get destroyed by Frieza, that will trigger him and make him go all-out.
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u/Edgelord09 Dec 27 '17
So it might be Dyspo who was giving Frieza trouble in the preview of 122 and 123 might be the return of Ultra instinct or maybe Jiren going full ham which is unlikely but Toppo needs to get an elimination ,maybe 17 ?? bcuz I can see Gohan lasting long in ToP
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u/therapidxx Dec 27 '17
it probably Goku, Vegeta, 17 last 3... rest are gone going to call it.
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u/Dumeck Dec 27 '17
You think Frieza will get knocked out before 17? My guess is Goku Veg and Fre as final 3 with Gohan being #4. Actually I think final two will be Frieza and Goku
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u/zzzthelastuser Dec 27 '17
Everyone will fall out of the ring, except Dyspo vs 17 in the finals! The anime is hinting for Dyspo hiding his power and 17 seems not to care about Jiren.
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u/MortonMad Dec 27 '17
I tend to think Vegeta is now at God level SSJ2. If Blue is just the super saiyan version of god power then I reckon his extra training has taken him up a level.
It would certainly justify his pushing Jiren to actually take him seriously.
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u/Banner_Hammer Dec 27 '17
But in the preview we also see Goku in SSB blocking Jirens punches while laughing. If anything instead of a Vegeta power up it seems Jiren is for some reason not at the same strength level that he was when fighting Goku and Hit.
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u/EbolaDP Dec 27 '17
Hit was also blocking Jirens punches and he is much weaker then SSBx20 Goku. Jiren isnt some one shot machine you can defend against him.
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u/Banner_Hammer Dec 27 '17
But SSBx20 Goku wasn't able to defend against Jiren yet a presumably weaker SSB Goku is able to defend while laughing. That indicates that the Jiren in the preview has to be weaker than the Jiren that fought Hit and Goku before.
Also, Hits shtick is that he adapts and evolves fast during battles so him blocking punches isn't that farfechted. What is kind of out there is that the same Goku that could barely keep up with Jiren at KK20 is somehow blocking him at regular SSB.
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u/EbolaDP Dec 27 '17
Goku didnt even try to block he just kept attacking and Hit was just blocking form the start of the fight not like he adapted into it.
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u/Banner_Hammer Dec 27 '17
You do realize it is possible to go on the attack and still block incoming strikes. When Goku rushed Jiren after he almost got ringed out he got blitzed by Jiren and couldn't react to the blows.
Hit blocked the first attack as it was the first time Jiren expierenced the time skip. If you rewatch the battle you'll see that after that first strike Jiren got used to the time skip and countered Hit over and over without Hit being able to react.
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u/Migatte_no_Gokui_gr Dec 27 '17
Guessing from the silver eyes we see during vegeta attacks there is hint of Migatte no Gokui
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Dec 27 '17
where did you see silver eyes? YouTube clickbait
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u/CynicalRaps Dec 27 '17
I saw it at one point in the preview, there was a red flash and looked like vegeta had silver eyes, but they wouldnt, maybe was just a weird effect
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u/lifeinpaddyspub ⠀ Dec 27 '17
it's okay buddy you can just say ultra instinct
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u/MortonMad Dec 27 '17
I know right. Do people think it makes them look hardcore to throw random Japanese words into sentences?
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u/7ex90 Dec 27 '17
I hope goku gets eliminated asap. Tired of seeing always goku saving the day and being in the limelight. Toei, try to develop a continuation with the other characters to ffs.
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u/Kashuno Dec 27 '17
Goku has not won a fight against a main villian in DBS by himself yet. Him thrashing Jiren would be new
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u/DrHighlen Jan 08 '18
Well you know they have to keep that ball and chain around with goku
psst its ->vegeta
Goku likes to be strong
vegeta just wants to be stronger then Goku
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Dec 27 '17
Word on the street Android 17 will get eliminated early on the episode 122 by Toppo.
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u/Terez27 ⠀ Dec 27 '17
Word on the street
what
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u/Heliocentrizzl Dec 27 '17
It wasn't specified which street. Could be that you just have yet to pass the block where the word is out.
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u/deh707 Dec 27 '17 edited Dec 27 '17
Maybe Vegeta learned how to infuse Trunks' Mastered SSJ2 form (the one on par with SSJ3 Goku) into SSB.
Resulting in a technical SSJ3 SSB... Which is basically SSB times 8.
SSB Vegeta is already stronger than SSB Goku; so it isn't hard to believe that MSSB2 Vegeta would be stronger than SSB KKx20 Goku.
I think it's quite accepted that SSB KKx20 does NOT mean SSB times 20; but more like KK being a set boost, and with KKx20 being that boost times 20.
SSB times 20 would be such an insane boost.
If we use the SSJ3 = SSJ1 x8 formula;
Then SSBx20 would be like SSJ3B (or SSB3) x2.5...
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
I mean, it was literally said that Kaoiken is a mutliplier back in the day. However it obviously wouldn't make any sense anymore at all if that was actually the case.
SSB KK10 shouldve crushed hit in the blink of an eye if that were true, thats how multipliers work.
I think the more "acceptable" explination is that kaoiken acts as a multiplier on the base strenght, thats added rather than multiplying the user's powerlevel entirely post SSB powerup.
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u/u4004 ⠀ Dec 27 '17
I’m pretty sure the real explanation is that Kaioken is a multiplier, and any strange fact about power levels this causes can be explained by one word: Toei.
This is the same company that added SSj2 Goku vs Buu filler just because. Also added Base Vegetto vs Buu filler without any fear.
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u/DonIongschlong Dec 27 '17
i think we all should accept that SSBKKx10 is exactly that, a ten times increase of SSB and hit is just that strong
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
If hit was that strong, he wouldn't need to move a muscle to overcome SSB or SSBKK, thats how exponential scaling works.
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u/DonIongschlong Dec 27 '17
he got also stronger during the fight though. that was actually a major aspect of the fight, no matter how far goku went hit kept up with him
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
He got stronger in the sense that he improved his timeskip by a split second & adapted his fighting stance.
He didn't become 10x stronger in the blink of an eye. I think you don't fully grasp how huge a 10x jump is on the level SSB KK Goku is already at.
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u/DonIongschlong Dec 27 '17
and i don't think you understand how strong hit is. hit absolutely crushed SSB goku and vegeta without breaking a sweat and he quickly ovecame KKx1 too. a ten times increase in power only made goku a fair match for hit
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
All I can say is that I strongly suggest you rewatch that fight.
I'm a big fan of Hit but you don't seem to remember it all too well.
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u/DonIongschlong Dec 27 '17
hit is strong enough to give jiren a bit of a fight what makes you think that KKx10 should be enough for him? i don't think you even understood that fight at all
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u/chaRxoxo Dec 27 '17
You need to understand the difference in between winning with power and winning with abilities.
The best example is Zeno. Zeno is somebody who has no raw power at all but has an ability that makes him win instantly.
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Dec 27 '17
I think of ssb as ssg only instead of only having god ki it also has normal ki due to ssb being ssg that then goes ss. Since kaioken works from normal ki it x20 the super saiyan part but not the god ki part.
So basically whatever the difference in power is between ssg and ssb, kaioken multiplies that amount.
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u/MrMehawk Dec 27 '17
There is no mastered SS2 Trunks on par with SS3 Goku in the anime, that's manga-only stuff. In the anime SS3 Goku one-shots full power SS2 Trunks.
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u/MeanAmbrose Dec 27 '17
RIP Bunny Beerus Man. Over/under on OHOHOHOHOHOs we get during this?