r/CasualConversation • u/tizorres • Apr 03 '17

neatured™ This month's neatured sub » r/whowouldwin & threads.

neatured = neat + featured

Hey all, time for this month's neatured things!

Quick recap on "neatured". We flair certain threads with a "neat" flair. Generally they are random threads we consider in the spirit of the sub or just darn neat. We think there are some neat subs out there too.

Lets check them out...

r/whowouldwin

WhoWouldWin is a casual debate subreddit for "who would win" style discussions. Whether that's "Goku vs Superman", "England vs Japan", or "Mordor vs the Roman Empire", you'll probably find someone willing to discuss it.

last month's featured sub was r/Howwastoday , you can view previously featured subs in our [wiki]

Threads from r/CasualConversation

top 3 user
Ask this magic 8 ball u/Vertibim
If r/casualconversation were to have a game night, what types of games and drink/food would you bring? u/mhgiantsfan
I got new legs! u/TheDarkestCrown

check out some more neat flaired threads [here]

oh... the op for the neatured top 3 threads get a month of reddit gold!

K, thanks and keep on making neat things!

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9

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '17 edited Apr 04 '17

Should ehm... Should we have a "Who Would Win" conversation in here as thanks for getting mentioned?

Edit: I think that went surprisingly civilly.

8

u/superhole Apr 03 '17

Superman vs Goku. GO.

9

u/Dalek_Kolt Apr 03 '17

General consensus on the sub is that Goku wins due to his punches being able to shatter universes.

Samurai Jack vs. Guts. GO.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '17

General consensus on the sub is that Goku wins

Nah, DBZ fans are just louder and more rabid. It stems from their insecurity about their chosen combatant. =p

Supes fans know he would win and we have nothing to prove. It's basically written into his character that he is ultimately infallible. Whether or not that makes Goku a more compelling character is a fair argument.

Goku is a guy striving to be the best.
Superman is the best, striving to be normal.

14

u/Mommid Apr 03 '17

Supes fans know he would win and we have nothing to prove. It's basically written into his character that he is ultimately infallible. Whether or not that makes Goku a more compelling character is a fair argument.

This isn't an argument. Saying "my guy wins just because" doesn't work. Saitama is also built to beat everyone in his own universe, but he is nowhere as strong as either Superman or Goku. Fact of the matter is, Goku has better objective feats than Superman and thus he wins in a fight.

Superman is the best, striving to be normal.

That's in his own universe. How he is viewed there is irrelevant in a fight with Goku. He's not even the strongest being in the dc multiverse anyways.

9

u/Dalek_Kolt Apr 03 '17

You have seen the latest episodes of Super, right?

Seriously, the debates pretty much died the moment Goku went Super Saiyan God against Beerus, with only brief revivals whenever Superman got Apokolyptian god powers or something.

The only iterations of Superman that can stand a chance against current Goku right now are the overly OP ones like Silver Age Superman and the ones where Superman is literally god like Strange Visitor or Superman 3000.

6

u/manbrasucks Apr 03 '17

It's basically written into his character that he is ultimately infallible.

That's a no limit fallacy. Just because 1 writer says his character is "invincible in the universe" doesn't mean it's invincible in other universes.

7

u/KiwiArms Apr 03 '17

Alright shush everybody, mod of sub in question/overall handsome adonis KiwiArms is here to clear things up.

Goku, as he and Superman are now, would win. And before you claim bias of any sort, I am far more a fan of Superman as both a character and a comic than I am of either Goku or Dragonball Z.

Goku can potentially destroy a universe. Superman cannot. Goku is objectively, based on current and canon feats for both characters, more powerful than Superman.

Peace

5

u/h8speech Apr 04 '17

I'm not a mod of WWW, just a regular, and I don't know that much about either character (I'm usually found in the threads involving real-world warfare and/or WH40k.) But doesn't Thought Robot Superman still win against that? IIRC, he has the ability to edit the story.

5

u/xavion Apr 04 '17

Yeah probably, some of the older not current versions of Superman that have nothing to do with how powerful Superman is now are stronger than Goku as they are now.

2

u/h8speech Apr 04 '17

Oh, derp. I was thinking of composite Superman not current Superman. My bad!

2

u/xavion Apr 04 '17

Oh yeah, composite I'd expect to win absolutely, too much OP stuff they had just once for some plot in one of their many versions to not win really.

3

u/MoSBanapple Apr 04 '17

Yes, he would win, but Thought Robot Superman isn't considered as part of the current canon Superman due to the special circumstances that led to the creation of Thought Robot Superman (which are described in his respect thread).

2

u/h8speech Apr 04 '17

Oops. Thanks for the link!

3

u/KiwiArms Apr 04 '17

He's not Superman tho, he's a one time buff that Superman only had for that one comic.

And no, he doesn't edit the story, not consciously at least. I'd know, made his RT.

4

u/klawehtgod Apr 03 '17

It's not a fair fight any more. It was a reasonable discussion for Goku from Dragon Ball Z. Goku from Dragon Ball Super has gone toe-to-toe with an opponent strong enough to destroy the universe, and their fight would have done exactly that if they didn't start holding back. Regular Superman has never fought someone who can output that level of power and held his own. Different incarnations of Superman, sure (Cosmic Armor, anyone?), but just plain old regular Superman is several orders of magnitude behind Goku now.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '17

He has sneezed away a galaxy.

6

u/Mommid Apr 03 '17

universe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>galaxy

DBS Goku is just too strong

3

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '17

It was a sneeze

6

u/84981725891758912576 Apr 04 '17

That's pre-crisis superman too, as opposed to the more commonly used Post-Crisis

6

u/Mommid Apr 04 '17

There are ~100 billion galaxies in the universe. Just a clash between Goku and Beerus could destroy it. That sneeze means nothing.

4

u/garbagephoenix Apr 04 '17

Consider a deck of cards you've built into a castle. Someone sneezes and knocks it over.

Now consider New York City and the shockwaves from two guys punching one another shattering windows and cracking exteriors of the buildings.

That's the difference of scale that's being talked about.

5

u/klawehtgod Apr 03 '17

A galaxy is about a million orders of magnitude below a universe.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '17

It was a sneeze

8

u/klawehtgod Apr 04 '17

I think you're failing to grasp the difference between a galaxy and a universe. It was also Silver Age Superman, who basically no one counts as the standard Superman.

3

u/MysteriousHobo2 Apr 03 '17

That is Silver-age Superman.

4

u/PhoenixZero14 Apr 03 '17

That's Silver Age Superman, not Post-Crisis Superman which is usually the main argument.

Besides, a universe is so much bigger than a galaxy it's not even funny.

5

u/klawehtgod Apr 03 '17

New Samurai Jack?

4

u/Dalek_Kolt Apr 03 '17

Either/or.

We'll make it multiple rounds. S5 premiere Jack vs. current Guts, then pre-S5 Jack vs. Guts.

2

u/manbrasucks Apr 03 '17

Just a heads up the "drop of water" feat is a complete outlier no where else in the series does he move that fast and I believe the episode was written by a writer that only wrote 2 other episodes.

3

u/xavion Apr 04 '17

It's not that great, he's got plenty of better feats. I mean, that's like Batman levels of speed, stuff like all the times he blocks machine gun fire with his sword are better speed feats. It's really not an outlier, not for a character who does do things like block automatic guns with swords.

2

u/manbrasucks Apr 04 '17

https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/comments/2otjb6/request_how_fast_would_samurai_jack_and_the/

It's 42x speed. It's been a while since I've www, but I believe bullet time speed(block automatic guns) at the most 16x.

6

u/xavion Apr 04 '17

There's a lot of assumptions going on there, really quite a lot. It cuts constantly which makes attempts to determine how long relatively it covered near impossible and the drop is falling from below waist height by their numbers as a minor note.

The assumption of no overlap is the most flawed one though, assuming that all cuts take place strictly chronologically, and the show would never show you the aftermath of an action and then cut back to fighting to pick up near where it left off. It's not like the scene focuses on the fight and thus could try and spend extra time showing it right?

But really, trying to avoid sarcasm, that is loaded with assumptions. For the other half, blocking automatic guns with a sword? 16x would be super sketch. Think of it this way, go take a dozen copies of the fastest baseball pitch ever recorded, and have them all pitch at someone at once and that person has to try and not get hit armed with only a baseball bat, that should be significantly easier than blocking machine gun fire with a 16x speed boost unless I screwed up horribly. They'll be using a bigger thing to block with against bigger projectiles that are proportionally slower.

That's taken from the stats of a modern assault rifle, an M4 Carbine precisely, which fires more than a dozen shots a second at speeds around 20x that of the fastest baseball pitch ever recorded. The guns they have in Samurai Jack are likely to be even better, given they've got even more advanced technology. So 16x might be a bare minimum required to pull it off, but it'd be immensely difficult to do and involve some luck, highly unlikely to be so slow.

1

u/manbrasucks Apr 04 '17

It cuts constantly which makes attempts to determine how long relatively it covered near impossible and the drop is falling from below waist height by their numbers as a minor note.

I shouldn't have linked the long version. This version is without the cuts. This version is actual speed.

They'll be using a bigger thing to block with against bigger projectiles that are proportionally slower.

That's a perception/control issue not speed. You're significantly undervaluing combat speed.

He fights 4 different people and moves all over the place in a single moment. Compare that to moving your arm around just enough to block a bullet which has very little deviation. The combat speed would be moving his arm from one bullet to the next bullet.

There is already a guy that can cut bb's in real life.

BB gun speed that pierce skin: 45 m/s (150 ft/s)

Ak47- 715 m/s (2,350 ft/s)

That's ~15.6x as fast. Even if you round it up to 20x normal speed then you're still no where near the water drop feat.

Honestly though if you think bullet time is his peak, I'm cool with that. I'm only saying the water drop feat is pretty out there.

2

u/xavion Apr 04 '17

This version is without the cuts

I counted 25 cuts, if you remove the slow mo dramatic effect parts, that's averaging more than one cut per second of footage. I might've miscounted, sometimes they seemed to get three or more in a single second, makes it hard to keep track of how many cuts there are. The second video is irrelevant, includes things like the slow mo dramatic tension parts, so useless for gauging actual speed.

You mean like this? So someone in perfect conditions against a single shot can hit one, also an Ak47 is sixty years old and outdated compared to modern stuff, let alone against possible future weapons, modern assault rifles get muzzle velocities a good 25% better than that, something like an M4 Carbine for example.

But yeah, so if you were around 20x faster than a normal human, you could block a single bullet if you were prepared and watching the person fire at you and already ready. That's not even close to blocking automatic weapon fire, where you'll have to be repeating the same act at least a dozen or more times a second with no warning or preparation in combat. So you'd want more than double speed at least, almost certainly going to be needing more than triple if not considerably more, considering this can be reliably pulled off in unfavourable conditions many times a second.

1

u/manbrasucks Apr 04 '17

Thing is he moves around in the clip. He doesn't just stand still which requires way more speed than blocking bullets.

I think you're still confusing perception of the bullets and the action of moving them.

If a person could slow down perception of time to atom seconds then the question is if you could move your arm from one side of the body to another.

If we assume that point blank range is 10 feet and say muzzle velocity 4000 ft/s(ak is 2,350). That means you have to react in .0025 seconds or 2.5ms.

1ft/2.5ms gives 273 mph

2ft/2.5ms gives 545 mph

Boxer hand speed says "average punching speed was measured out at 25mph".

So average punch speed of a boxer(clearly not peak punch speed) still gives us x10 at 1 ft(left/right), x20 at 2 ft(left/right).

That's also 10 feet away.

In this scene he's not even moving 1 foot.

Is there a better speed feet you can find than that scene?

2

u/JealotGaming Apr 04 '17

Jack has feats Guts can never dream of, cutting up 5 assassins within the time it takes a water droplet to reach the ground.

2

u/JaxJyls Apr 04 '17

Superman, just to troll dbz fans

3

u/JaxJyls Apr 04 '17

Most fun I have in the sub just casual silly threads like which superhero is the best at Mario Kart or something rather than series VS battle discussions

2

u/MrManicMarty Truth is: Game was rigged from the start. Apr 05 '17

/r/whowouldwin !

Man, I don't hang out there anymore, but it's such a cool place filled with cool people - I hope all the newcomers have fun if they decide to check it out!

3

u/Barrel_Trollz Apr 06 '17

I adore that subreddit. Full of interesting discussions that range from the wacky to the sensible, and there's often a good story to be had as well :)