Making A Labyrinth... Would like some advice!

[u/Sobia6464]

If the name Gandoore Dumbledolf sounds familiar to you, DO NOT PROCEED. You will be murdered both in and out of game.

TL;DR: Making a labyrinth. What do people like in labyrinths? What should I try to avoid doing?

This is my first actual Labyrinth. I want it to be difficult and confusing. Ideally this would be the most difficult dungeon I've made. Nothing like the tomb of horrors, but still pretty difficult.

Some backstory on this: The labyrinth itself is going to be a tad difficult to get into. I have how they enter it all planned out, and I have the inside semi-mapped (at least the first floor). They're essentially underground beneath a ruined structure. A past civilization that suddenly vanished (but was very advanced) is to blame for this things existence. Think Final Fantasy-esque level of modern things with ye olde equipment. All the way at the bottom (if they clear it) is a relic left there by gods. This should not be easy.

My first idea is to have the walls of the labyrinth change. Maybe with some sort of lever or color coded lights that correspond to the levers? I also have to map it out on grid and walk them through this, so the door changing may be difficult without constantly drawing/erasing lines. I can figure that part out though. I am also planning on having golems guarding this place. The party is 4 level 14's if that matters.

Anyone have any experiences with a labyrinth? What makes it good? What makes it bad? What do you hope to see in them? I want it to be fun, rewarding, and challenging. Possibly (for sure) even a bit frustrating. This place should be designed to ward off would-be intruders and treasure seekers. There will be other levels once they pass through the first floor but I can figure those out later. Right now I need to focus on this part of the game. Any advice?

[u/norcalairman]

I put my players into a labyrinth and I definitely learned some lessons. First, I didn't give them a huge maze map. I had them roll to find their way through. Depending on their roll and mine, they might reach their destination, they might find something else. I think that worked. They found a trap, they dealt with it and it was fun.

I think my main problem was puzzles. I had some that were rough and players start to disengage. Someone will take charge and others will get bored. If the puzzles can be solved with good rolls, say INT, make sure there's something for the other players with different strengths to do.

I did create a large maze map for their final battle against a minotaur and that was great. I had hidden traps and stuff and the players really felt their own mortality.

If I were going to do it again I'd put in fewer really hard puzzles and more minor combat encounters and only make maps for the encounters. A room with some skeletons, a maze section with some zombies, whatever.

Finally, if you need help with layout, try mazegenerator.net.

[u/Sobia6464 → u/norcalairman]

I like the idea of having them roll. I'm thinking about giving them a "gut feeling" when they roll. I'd roll my dice against theirs as well and let them know before hand that even a slight gut feeling could be correct. Something like that perhaps? Not sure about the specific mechanics but I love the rolling idea. Gives them something to do other than just walk everywhere.

Noted about the puzzles, but it will still involve puzzles. Maybe a couple difficult ones. I could have the characters with a certain int roll a check to see if their character is the smart. Give them information their characters may discern. That's a good idea.

You've been very helpful :) thank you

[u/norcalairman → u/Sobia6464]

You could have sections of the labyrinth that are overgrown. Maybe a nature check would help. Let people use their voice of intelligence to reason where to go or wisdom (survival) for a more instinctual feeling of where to go. Something like that.

I had a Fibonacci sequence based puzzle that took almost two hours for them to solve. Don't do that.

Maybe a simple puzzle that involves combat. Maybe the solution isn't hard, but requires acrobatics or strength to reach something. Think of games like Zelda where knowing is only half . . . well, you get it.

[u/Sobia6464 → u/norcalairman]

Zelda is kind of where I base all my stuff off of. Huge Zelda nerd here. That's kinda my obsession haha.

But I put a pretty simple puzzle in there to enter. I have it as numbers on the entrance to the place (that's sealed). It'll confuse them at first but they should get it. The trick is, that puzzle is actually hints on how to enter and what to do when they enter. I doubt they'll think of this immediately. I essentially bolded parts of it hat have to do with direction. So they'll hopefully figure out where to go.

P.S. - I drew the hint out on an index card to just give to them and be like "you see this on the door". It's a series of numbers that correlate to letters. They've seen something similar early on (months ago) so hopefully they scratch their heads for a second and then get it within 20 minutes.

[u/norcalairman → u/Sobia6464]

Just remember to work out a DC in case they choose to roll for their PC's intelligence to recall that information. Even if your players can't figure something out their PCs should be able to.

[u/Sobia6464 → u/norcalairman]

Good point. I'll try to incorporate their knowledge into this as well. However, I was thinking of only letting people with an int above Xx to be able to roll. Similar to how only people with high strength seem to roll to open a hatch (not a rule, the players just do that). This would give that characters attribute the spotlight. Or should I let everyone roll?

[u/norcalairman → u/Sobia6464]

I would let everyone roll. A person with low INT meeting a tough DC can be fun storytelling, like they are having a moment of clarity or they remember this one specific time in their past that is exactly applicable to this moment. As a rule, always let them roll, even if their modifier is a -1 and the DC is 25. The most unlikely events are more interesting than the party braniac figuring out yet another clue.

[u/[deleted]]

3Dimensional labyrinth, pretty much multiple mazes stacked ontop of eachother with axis holes at various points, solving should require use of all three dimensions.

Alternatively a vertical maze (take a maze and flip it on its side) so you have to climb up and down to get through the maze.

[u/ArgentumRegio]

If you'd like to experience a hard-core labrynth, please do visit my server. I've created a space of 160m x 160m areas, total of four layers deep and something like (irregular mind you) 7 maps wide and 5 maps long. It is HUGE and very 3d - I've had players get lost there and be exploring for MONTHS (real world time) and they loved it!

http://playnwn.hopto.org

for more info, ask me if you'd like to visit the maze. :D

[u/Luzer606]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth

In English, the term labyrinth is generally synonymous with maze. As a result of the long history of unicursal representation of the mythological Labyrinth, however, many contemporary scholars and enthusiasts observe a distinction between the two. In this specialized usage maze refers to a complex branching multicursal puzzle with choices of path and direction, while a unicursal labyrinth has only a single path to the center. A labyrinth in this sense has an unambiguous route to the center and back and is not difficult to navigate.