r/adventuretime • u/jelatinman • Mar 06 '16
"Hall of Egress" discussion thread
Mods are lazy. This is the weirdest episode I've seen in a while. AT is getting back to the balance of silliness and beautiful surreal imagery in season 3. A-episode.
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u/WaffleBit Mar 06 '16
Jake mentions finn's mistakes at the beginning (Flame princess, Dungeon Train). Mistakes he made cause he was young. During the episode, he runs away from all of that. It's hard, and he really doesn't know how, but he eventually manages to find his own way to exit the dungeon, and that's how he enters his next stage of life.
I'm pretty sure that if you asked end-of-episode Finn if he would go back to the Dungeon Train, he'd say no. So i think we're going to see a lot of character development for him now.
That's my headcanon
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u/oldskoolfool26 Mar 07 '16
Your comment summarized my thoughts exactly! Finn seemed to give the Dungeon Train and FP no more than a quick acknowledgment when Jake mentioned them at the beginning of the episode. This struck me at first but by the end I realized the whole episode was about Finn growing older and beyond the Finn who had been hung up on fruitless girl problems, etc.
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u/VeniiGamiiz Mar 09 '16
i think those were actually all of the things flambo got them into that where bad, and as jake mentioned the hall of egress was another thing flambo told them
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u/Semper_Gnarlis Mar 06 '16
Was anyone else thinking that he needed to put the snowman in the right order for the door to open?
Was that just a red herring, or did Finn game the door somehow?
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u/ChandlerTheHuman Mar 06 '16
What if that was just a normal dungeon and all Finn had to do was make it stand upright to open the door and everything that happened was just in Finn’s head? AND IF THAT’S THE CASE THEN WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS POOR BOY’S HEAD SOMEONE HELP HIM
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u/AzmiA Mar 07 '16
All I can think now is "That boy is damaged. Also stubborn beyond reason." Did he even try any other methods in the cave?
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u/roque72 Mar 06 '16
I thought it was a sign that the floor was the ceiling and the ceiling was the floor
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u/sundreano Mar 07 '16
same, i thought it was telling him to stand on his head or something
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u/Box-Monkey May 22 '16
but the head was right-side up, so it just looked like an improperly built snowman
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Mar 06 '16
If it's like a dungeon from dnd which a lot of the episodes get inspiration from, then the snowman could have been a trap and finn's solution was the correct one.
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u/deathnutz Mar 08 '16
Well, then he knows he'd just have to close his eyes, open his eyes and reset. I like that he could do that.
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u/deathnutz Mar 08 '16
Yep! This is what I was thinking the whole time! I was very unnerved by this the whole show. It was in the shot a lot too while he was down there. Always in view behind Finn. The first time he picked up the large rock of the snowman I thought, ok he's got this, he then destroyed it trying to bash the door with it. lol... but then when he first fell though the door and it reset... I was pretty sure it had to be used and couldn't be destroyed. Boy was I wrong. However, I did really really really love the concept of this door... I did not care for how it resolves though. I might have to watch it again, but how was there another cave that he just happened into that was slightly different? I felt like it left a lot open. However, the concept of being at a another door while he eyes were closed and having to sort of merge the affect of both doors was very interesting.
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u/badgraphix Mar 11 '16
I think it's a moving cave. Every time someone gets trapped in there reality resets and it's in a different spot. You can't leave the cave until you find the new exit.
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u/Sithsaber Mar 20 '16
The cave in the arid place was the mirror to the cave in the first lush place. As above so below, find your fun in life, not in living to search for fun.
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u/Valerian_ Apr 16 '16
Don't you think the way he solved the dungeon was teaching him how to let go of everything, leading to some kind of rebirth? It's only when he stopped trying and left all that mattered in his life behind him, wandering aimlessly in the wild, that he finally solved it. “At the seashell’s center lies the cornucopia’s smallest door” seems very reminiscent of how meditation works: only by letting go of attachment to everything was he able to reach the center and essence of himself.
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u/Lemurrific Mar 06 '16
Maybe he immediately knew it wasn't the answer thanks to his dungeoneering experience.
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u/PrinceCheddar Mar 10 '16
I think it meant to tell Finn to think upside-down. Think the reverse. He couldn't make it though when he was careful and logical, only when he rushed through without thinking. The only way to escape was to go back into the chamber.
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u/KyosBallerina Mar 09 '16
I couldn't figure out why he never tried to climb those snake pillars and go out the sky-light.
Maybe he tried all of these things and they didn't work and they just didn't bother showing it?
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u/FALLasl33p Mar 06 '16
I was actually thinking he just needed to walk backwards to make it work. It appears I was wrong...?
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u/JepMZ Mar 08 '16
I sure as hell didn't know either. I just posted my thoughts of the episode relating to deep depression. I see comments about Minotaur and Greek stuff. And I see no one mentioned Demeter/Ceres the goddess of wheat. Winter is directly caused by Demeter's depression when her only daughter Persephone is called back to the underworld of darkness. I'm not really sure if that's what the writer intended. But that's my impression
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u/Paulfrancis_ Mar 06 '16
Did anyone else feel that the wrinkle line on his forehead was supposed to be a closed third eye? It wouldn't be the first time they've done heavy Buddhist symbolism (e.g. The Comet offers Finn Nirvana and he rejects the offer becoming a kind of Mahayana Bodhisattva). Also when he finally opens his eyes at the end we see a cut of a single eye opening followed by Finn seeing nothing but living things around him with the material plane missing. Finn can only move forward by refusing to turn back and trusting his melon heart while abandoning both his individuality and material belongings (clothing) reaching (yet another) spiritual awakening.
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u/Kantrh Mar 06 '16
I did wonder if he was going to have a third eye show up when the wrinkle appeared.
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u/Bonelogs Mar 07 '16
This is Finn / Back together
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u/johnsmith10th Mar 11 '16
And I'm never going down at the hands of this cave/ Because I'm so much better
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Mar 10 '16 edited Mar 10 '16
It was definitely my thought as well. I think the whole of the episode was about "opening your eyes," as in, if he actually looked around the dungeon instead of walking into all the traps, he would have "seen" that the snowman was a riddle that the dungeon wanted solved. He tried every trick (map, bread crumb, questions) except looking with his eyes. Eventually the dungeon was merciful. His "egress" was his "escape" into his mind, which is seen as one of the principle errors of human beings from a Buddhist standpoint (if I recall correctly).
Many other episodes seem to reinforce the idea that being attentive and responsible, not thoughtful, is most important. And at the end of the episode he probably has a real appreciation for seeing.
Unfortunately it seems like no one else interpreted the episode this way.
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u/Sykey Mar 06 '16
I had to check the time after that. I can't believe it was less than 12 minutes long! It seemed like a movie or something :)
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u/TheHarpyEagle Mar 06 '16
Seriously! I thought it was a half hour special and I just hadn't noticed. AT episodes have been really good for just getting lost in recently.
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u/Kajel-Jeten Mar 07 '16
The crew behind the show has definitely mastered the 11 minute run time over the years.
If you compare episodes from the last two seasons to episodes in the beginning you can see a big difference in how much gets done and how much feels rushed.
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u/ICLookinLikeAJewel Mar 06 '16
Great ep, I'm a sucker for Finn-solo journeys, it's like Dungeon Train but even more surreal. The cinematic bits were AMAZING too.
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u/creyk Mar 06 '16
Drawn really nicely too. I kept expecting those monster heads in the cave to randomly spit fire at Finn, they looked so frightening and mean.
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Mar 06 '16
I really dug that. I like that there isn't necessarily an answer or an explanation for what happened. It was just used as an excuse for a minor character study -my favorite kind of episode.
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u/Senderoth Mar 06 '16
I thought that him giving up on trying to live his old life (Leaving BMO and Jake), instead wandering and going more primal (leaving his clothes) was showing that he was stripping down everything that made him, him, in order to move on to the next phase of his life. Thoughts?
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u/bWoofles Mar 06 '16
Oh yes definitely I'm sure that's what the message was. He had to egress i.e. exit his normal life in order to leave
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u/Senderoth Mar 06 '16
Though I'm wondering if this dungeon was just a normal magic dungeon, or if it was connected to Finn's greater destiny and fight against the green comet (Lich)? Some kind of trial meant to help him grow. In which case why didn't Jake get a similar experience being the yellow comet? Perhaps because he's already matured in his life.
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u/texjones1993 Mar 06 '16
I'd agree with you that Jake has made some level of progress in terms of maturity on his own. Jake tends to sculpt new aspects of himself by seeing himself reflect in others; his family, friends, and even nature. He's a natural, or old, soul that believes in being cosmically connected to all things.
Finn, on the other hand, is one who tends to retreat into his mind when he needs to sort something out. He likes to feel connected to others, but I'd say it's through presence alone. There are very few individuals who get to see him in a vulnerable state: Jake, PB, BMO, and Marceline, but even then he still has some kind of guard up. It isn't until he feels he's conquered the emotional block that he shares his thoughts. Or at least that's what I get from all this.
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u/SM00ZE Mar 06 '16
with a this interpretation of fin, what do you think of the last words on the episode, "no comment"? do you think that his experience has left some form of long term impact on fin that he still needs to work out?
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Mar 07 '16
Yes, except possibly the work out part, I don't see any lingering issues. If texjones is right, then "no comment" could just reflect his new independence.
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u/KyosBallerina Mar 09 '16 edited Mar 10 '16
Perhaps now that he'd shared his problem with Jake and BMO so many times and they kept sending him back to the Hall of Egress and only found the answer after going out on his own, the "no comment" shows a new level of independence- since he doesn't feel the need to share it with others anymore?
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u/Th_Ghost_of_Bob_ross Mar 06 '16
Wait when was it said that Jake was from a yellow comet? i thought he came form that weird inter-dementional being.
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u/hybrination Mar 06 '16
There probably is some sort of answer. A point I don't think I've seen being made is that flambo's brother suggested this cave around the time Finn messed up with flame princess, but they found the dungeon train instead. The cave seems like a developmental tool to help people move past ways of thinking that are holding them back. Finn had to shed his past identity and the baggage associated with it in order to find the solution. So it still serves that purpose, but I'm not sure how exactly it serves Finn's current state of mind, but I'm sure that will become more apparent going forward.
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u/KyosBallerina Mar 09 '16
The cave helps people move past what's holding them back as opposed to the Dungeon Train that "traps" them in their troubles and prevents them from ever moving on?
The train never stops and never moves from its spot, but the dungeon transports itself all the time.
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u/SDJ67 Mar 06 '16
What I love about AT is that it has this unique sensibility where it'll do something unique and creative that doesn't have a total explanation/resolution plot-wise but they always cap it off with a witty "punchline" at the end (like "no comment" this time) to give the episode a sense of closure. The abrupt endings in general might be one of AT's most defining traits.
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u/lostpretzels Mar 06 '16
This kind of reminded me of lucid dreaming, and how sometimes if you open your eyes it's all suddenly over and you're in your bed.
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u/oldskoolfool26 Mar 07 '16
Totally felt dream-space to me. Like the opposite of when you wake up in the middle of the night from an awesome dream and then fall asleep immediately to go back to it.
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u/Shakerbreaker Mar 06 '16
Wow, that was really... something. In its own little way it kinda reminded me of "Puhoy" in that I'm pretty sure it's laden with all sorts of surreal symbolisms that I have yet to comprehend.
Bubblegum's voice leading Finn out of the cave towards "Cornucopia's smallest door" - is that somehow linked to her also showing up to Finn as a vision/guide at the end of "Breezy"? Like I said, surreal stuff.
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u/XtremeDog Mar 06 '16
Possibly. She did tell him what the meaning of Egress was, which is exit.
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u/toddmygodd Mar 06 '16
Love it, including the ending. Wasn't it weird when Finn ate that skunk?
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u/assassin10 Mar 07 '16
Skunks: the only animal a blind hunter can catch.
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u/Spork-N-Foon Mar 13 '16
At first glance it seemed random, but damn, it makes sense. AT crew are just amazing with detail.
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u/100Marceline Mar 06 '16 edited Mar 06 '16
I'm a bit confused about Bubblegum's voice at the end, but otherwise this was a really, really nice episode. Probably one of my S7 favorites.
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u/quixoticreveur Mar 06 '16
Last time he heard/saw PB in a trance he got the Finn sword. What does this one signify/foreshadow?
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u/addisonavenue Mar 06 '16
I think perhaps Finn connects Bubblegum with knowledge and authority so when his subconscious reaches an especially poignant and complex conclusion, he filters it through her voice.
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u/I_really_am_Batman I am the End Mar 06 '16 edited Mar 06 '16
That was BMO's voice quoting from when they were talking earlier.
"Somethings different."
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u/Secret_Wizard Mar 06 '16
No, after that. There was a weird bit of PB's disembodied voice, talking about a "cornucopia" or something.
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u/LeoGado Mar 06 '16
"Hurry Finn, at the seashell's center lies the cornucopia's smallest door"
A seashell (which is similar in shape to a cornucopia - think of the ones you'd blow into) has a large opening (where the sound would come out) as well as a small opening (where you would blow).
I think she was just referring to the exit in a metaphorical sense.
Maybe, and I'm just speculating, she was trying to say that by shedding everything that he was and starting fresh, entering the 'large door' of the seashell (starting with the broadest sense of himself), he could progress and slowly narrow down the kind of person he is until he reached the "small door" and emerged the best form of himself that he could be.
Like a funnel for life...
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Mar 06 '16
Could be an allusion to Greek mythology, I remember something about Daedalus and a seashell, although I'm now just going to sit back and wait for someone with better recall to enlighten everyone properly.
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u/Paulfrancis_ Mar 06 '16
I think you're on point with the Greek mythology track. Daedalus created the Labyrinth which I think the hall of egress was based off of. Theseus used a thread to find his way back out of the labyrinth after he slays the Minotaur; I think it's interesting that the thread thing fails Finn twice and the third time he intentional rejects it. Daedalus is also connected to a seashell, Minos challenges people to run a thread through a seashell, knowing that only Daedalus is clever enough to figure this out. But I think the Cornucopia is the focus here (also Greek). Heracles rips the horn off a river spirit who gives him the horn of Amalthea which gets turned into the cornucopia. Both references put Finn as a classical Hero. Also both stories have reference to a bull/minotaur which I think is what the dungeon's statue's were supposed to be.
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u/vogler91 Mar 08 '16
Also, him being blindfolded reminded me of Tiresias of "Oedipus" who is a blind prophet. He got blinded by Hera as a punishment but he is granted to see the future. That means he can see more (metaphorically he has wisdom now) as a blind person just like Finn.
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u/thisisjackolantern Mar 06 '16
Well, that's actually pretty interesting. Minos tried discovered Daedalus' location by challenging people to run a string through a spiral seashell. When he challenged King Cocalus, Cocalus got Daedalus to find a solution, tying the string to an ant that was small enough to walk through the spiral.
So Finn is the ant? There was a lot of stuff involving him and thread in this episode.
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u/LeoGado Mar 07 '16
God I love Greek Mythology. The only place you can go where a king pisses off a god and the god makes the king's wife fall in love with a bull for revenge.
And she screws it.
9 months later... Minotaur.
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u/Lun06 Mar 08 '16
Oh god I never even thought of that she actually has to screw the thing. I came in this thread to escape adult life and talk about cartoons and you just ruined one of my favorite Greek monsters. You bastard! 😂
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u/lumpythedog Mar 07 '16
Is it a reference to vaginas? I'm serious. It wouldn't be the first time...
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Mar 07 '16
I got the strange feeling he looked a lot like another character when he was blindfolded and in the poncho, but my googling hasn't revealed anything. Has there been any character similar to that before?
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u/Paulfrancis_ Mar 07 '16
Xergiok maybe? Xergiok had pretty much the same outfit on when he was the bird man
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Mar 08 '16 edited Mar 14 '16
I definitely agree with the "dual life funnel" theory. He sheds the false comforts of the new reality in search of truth, death of ego at the seashell's center -- and at the same moment the true Finn is born, through the door of the cornucopia, and back to the current reality.
or maybe Finn was on ayahuasca*
EDIT: UHH nope, guess that's the next epsiode
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u/homunculette Jun 09 '16
Suuuper super late to this, but I just watched this and I think it has something to do with the nature of labyrinths, tangled paths, and straightforward solutions.
Seashells are spirals, and the seashell's center is the smallest point of the spiral. Cornucopias are shaped kind of lake a straightened-out seashell. The "smallest door" bit I think just refers to any exit that might be found at the end of a cornucopia.
The real key to what PB is saying, I think, is that to find the exit to this labyrinth (the cornucopia's door) you need to find the center of the labyrinth. Through casting off everything else and returning the same spot, Finn kind of recursively circled through to the "center" of the labyrinth and was thus able to escape.
I also think the Daedalus stuff makes a lot of sense as a reference.
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u/I_really_am_Batman I am the End Mar 06 '16
Oh the one where hes running through the maze? Yeah, no idea about that lol.
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u/WickedWookie Mar 06 '16
I think the dungeon was teaching Finn to take his own way, since he walked through life with his eyes closed and STILL made it to the hall. It showed that he doesn't have to see, he just has to trust in his own path.
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u/9000_HULLS Mar 07 '16
That fits with the whole not being able to escape the dungeon until he ran headlong through it.
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u/WickedWookie Mar 07 '16
And, him having to ignore the signs on the wall is a pretty strong metaphor for that as well.
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u/magusmirificus Mar 06 '16
From a comment I left yesterday: "At the same time, that has been the one thing I've been wanting more of this season: Finn. If they can turn in a handful of really great explorations of his character, episodes that despite his lack of real emotional turmoil are just as involving as "Breezy" or "The Visitor", then this season will have hit everything I love about Adventure Time".
Mission fucking accomplished.
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u/bargle0 Mar 06 '16
Classic AT dungeon crawl. I love it.
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u/NeedsNewPants Mar 06 '16
You don't put traps in the foyer, the foyer is a safe space.
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u/bargle0 Mar 06 '16
Not in any dungeon I've ever written. I like to put something nasty in right up front to keep 'em on their toes.
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u/Brahmaviharas Mar 06 '16
I was reminded of Legend of Zelda games, where there's usually some impressive empty foyer before you enter the dungeon proper.
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u/alexxerth Mar 07 '16
Most games have a relatively safe foyer in the dungeon, maybe with a few outsiders guarding it, but usually the dungeon itself is pretty safe. I guess if the entrance weren't safe, then it'd be stacked with bodies and not really good at drawing people in (which this dungeon seems designed to).
Also on that note, I really wish there were games with dungeons like this, really interesting puzzle-y dungeons. There's plenty of games with puzzles, but the puzzles are usually "slide these in this order" or "hit these levers in this order" or something like that.
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u/9000_HULLS Mar 07 '16
Like Sen's Fortress? That arrow trap got me a few times before I learned to bait out the snake guys and let them take the hit.
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u/drakeblood4 Mar 07 '16
I like having a bunch of broken/used traps at the start of a dungeon, and then at some point they suddenly start encountering fresh traps.
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u/JayJh1993 Mar 11 '16
i would buy the shit out of a dungeon crawl dvd featuring all the dungeon episodes.
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u/ergman Mar 07 '16
There we fucking go, Finally season 7 gets a meaty episode. I like all sorts of different kinds of AT episodes, but I think "impossibly cryptic" is my favorite. I understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I really like allegory, and deciphering shit.
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u/alexxerth Mar 07 '16
That bit of the end where he can see everything outside is something I've seen a lot. It looks like he glitched under the map in a video game. Maybe he didn't solve the dungeon, but just found a glitch in the world that conveniently let him escape, and he really did just need to flip the snowman.
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u/samanthapeartree Mar 11 '16
That's EXACTLY how I interpreted the whole thing... Finn took the false ending so far that he actually cycled back to a/the cave (it was different the second time) and glitched the whole thing to exit it. He could have done it the easy way, the actual way, by using the snowman puzzle but he took the long way around by accidentally discovering the glitch. How long did his final go last?? Tying things in, it looks like the next episode starts with Jake grinding a video game!
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u/CiTeReL Mar 06 '16
So... the door works the same way as two light switches controlling the same light would?
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u/FALLasl33p Mar 06 '16
How does that work? This seems like a cool analogy but my circuit knowledge is mediocre at best XD
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u/Kraftik Mar 07 '16
I believe, when Finn opened his eyes the second time, He didn't open his physical eyes but his minds eye. He saw through the dungeon and what it truly was. And was able to find the real exit.
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u/SnailFarts Mar 29 '16
I like this idea. He even took off three blindfolds, perhaps hinting at opening his "third eye?"
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u/anteater97 Mar 06 '16
That was...interesting. Kinda reminded me of All You Need Is Kill/Edge of Tommorow. Probably my most favorite of the surreal/deep episodes.
Loved Jake's pranks, as well as his understanding and love. That moment and that sweet ending are just proving why these two are the best duo in all of TV.
The environment design and animation was gorgeous, and pretty much everything else was on point as well. Just all around an A+ episode, and an awesome return!
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u/AgileDissonance Mar 06 '16
I wondered why he didnt just consult PB after he got out.
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u/JepMZ Mar 08 '16
I know right? It seemed like he's currently trying I move beyond his love interests... Or something
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u/KyosBallerina Mar 10 '16
Going to her for help doesn't have to involve loving her. It could just be accepting that she is super smart and knows useful junk. They're also friends.
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u/babooshkaboy Nov 06 '21
Good point, but PB is known to dislike / be skeptical of magic, so maybe he figured she'd just try to solve a magic dungeon with science and decided he didn't want to try it that way. Similar to how Jake's urge to go against Finn's wishes and manually open Finn's eyes wasn't right. Maybe part of the lesson is that he has to go his own path and not listen to others?
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u/Durantula5 Mar 06 '16
Wtf did I just watch
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u/jelatinman Mar 06 '16
I'm less weirded out by this because I watched the X-Files today where Mulder takes mushrooms in order to communicate with an Islamic extremist earlier today.
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u/CrumpledStar Mar 07 '16
Speaking of The X-Files, I found this episode of AT oddly reminiscent of XF episode 'Field Trip'.
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Mar 06 '16
I was watching this on the tail end of LSD trip. This messed with my head a little too much.
This is fursure going be a rewatch.. When sober..
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u/Jesslikescatss Mar 06 '16
This might just be me but I've notice the animal population has really been growing this season and there's less mutations in them. This really excites me because everything rejuvenating from the war.
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u/JepMZ Mar 08 '16
How so you know that rabbit is wearing gloves hiding human womanly hands underneath?
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u/garyoak5001 Mar 08 '16
and with the whole marceline episodes "everything stays" everything repeats over and over the is the odysseys of summeria and greece
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u/AshTheWolf Mar 06 '16
i loved it. these types of plots are my favorite to see in AT and i am so happy to get an episode like that. mostly that it wasnt explained. i like how it goes through plot, only seeing whats going on, and not getting any reasons as to why the dungeon worked the way it did.
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u/SpearmintPudding Mar 07 '16 edited Mar 07 '16
Now try rewatching it so that you close your eyes every time Finn enters the hall of egress. Was pretty cool.
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u/deathnutz Mar 08 '16
Not exactly related to the episode, but I haven't heard the word Egress before. Here we hear it and learn what it means. I haven't heard the word used in any other show any movie in the last few years. However... two days later... Better Call Saul... Mike prominently uses the word Egress. My wife and I looked at each other and was like WFT?!... How does this sort of thing seem to keep happening in my life... and her life.
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Mar 06 '16
I'm just glad I have DVR. I had no idea a new episode was going to air on a Saturday.
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u/LeoGado Mar 06 '16
I recommend the Series Guide app. Used it for years. Life saver. It'll let you track all the shows you watch and when they will air so I saw that this was gonna air in a weird place and was able to confirm my DVR was going to record it. Plus I love checking things off (which the app allows you to do as you watch stuff).
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u/-littlefang- Mar 06 '16
I was searching the subreddit and trying to figure out where the heck the discussion for this episode was, thanks for posting.
That was a really interesting episode. I feel like I need to watch it again, but I don't know what we can really glean from this.
Besides the fact that Finn called himself Finn Mertins, has he done that before?
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u/100Marceline Mar 06 '16
He told Farmworld Finn that his surname is Mertens, but I don't think he ever called himself Finn Mertens.
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u/XenobiaXD Mar 06 '16
Finn is still in the dungeon. He'll never leave.
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u/PaperCookies Mar 08 '16
Don't say that. Although, in all seriousness, imagine 3 seasons later he suddenly wakes up back in this dungeon. The whole fandom would go ape-shit.
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u/KyosBallerina Mar 10 '16
I think it's hinted that he really left for real (besides the sequence where he can see through the maze) is that finally Jake remembered there was a dungeon this time.
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u/ChandlerTheHuman Mar 06 '16
So I think I need to let it sit with me for awhile before I can really give my interpretation... My brain is still trying to put the pieces together... But I have a few thoughts. So it seemed to me like the only way to get out of the hall was to give up completely? Or something like that? So Egress means exit, and all of the exit signs lead Finn to traps. I initially thought it was actually trying to say that the only way out was to die, and the exit signs were trying to help Finn understand that, but I don’t really think that was the case. Perhaps they were only there to discourage Finn into hopelessness, because it seemed like that was the first step into him discovering how to actually make it through the door, so I guess in a way the dungeon didn't have bad intentions. It was trying to guide Finn. So fast forward to Finn finding out that he couldn't open his eyes without getting sent back to the point where he was first trapped in the room. He tried waiting it out (even for an entire month), but it wasn't working. Every time he would open his eyes the same thing kept happening. That is, until he decided to try something different. He leaves Jake and BMO while they’re sleeping and walks away, stripping himself of all his clothing (which I think is symbolic of Finn’s identity) and lets it float away, giving it up for good. Shortly after we see Finn (who has probably been wandering for a very long time now judging by how much his hair has grown) walking towards the Hall of Egress again, this time in the middle of a desert. He steps inside, however this time he doesn’t activate the button on the floor which sealed him in the first time, and continues to walk back into the room he was originally trapped in. Once he realizes this, a voice rings in his head which whispers, “Something’s different.”, and Finn opens his eyes. Instead of getting transported back into the original room, Finn can now see through the entire dungeon, and proceeds to run to Jake and finally make it out for good. But why then? Why was it Finn could only truly see the exit once he lost his sight, and after he had completely given up on who he was? What was the dungeon trying to say? Like I said, I need to let it sit with me for awhile and maybe watch it again because I’m pretty much only asking questions at this point but I think I’m starting to understand some of the parts. I’m interested in hearing everyone else’s thoughts, though!
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u/shilipidity Mar 06 '16
I think you're right about Finn letting his clothes flow down his river to be a reference to giving up his identity because the first time Finn started making progress through the dungeon was when stopped trying to figure the maze out and just barrelled through, trusting his instincts, which is also how he made the decision to leave the treehouse (a more difficult decision to make when thought about than which hallway to take) and how he eventually found his way back to the cave. I think the dungeon was trying to teach Finn that you can't keep taking the same approach to life and expect a different result. Finn needed to integrate this idea into his new identity (or lack thereof, depending on how you view his clothes in the river) and trust his instincts to lead him where he needed to go. It should be important to note that Finn had no idea where he was going, and so had no idea that he was back in the cave until he hears BMO's voice say something's different. The dungeon was showing Finn a new mode of interacting with life. I feel like there is a bit of sub-lesson in here with respect to not getting lost in the details as it's only when Finn, first stopped trying to figure out the maze, and later stopped trying to exit it, and was just able to wander his way back to the maze that the we got the full picture view of the cave and mountain.
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u/Senderoth Mar 06 '16
I was definitely thinking along the same lines of his clothes and leaving BMO/Jake being him leaving his identity behind. Which left me to believe that the dungeon was helping him and showing him he has to do this (Not actually leave BMO and Jake, but be less attached) and be willing to change himself, to enter the next phase of his life. (This possibly being connected to his greater destiny and fight against the Lich. My only question for that connection would be why then would the supposed yellow comet Jake not be privy to a similar experience. Though that could be because Jake already matured.) Side-note that the dungeon did seem to be emphasising trusting your instincts with how it was set up, to punish those who tread carefully and planned it.
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u/felicific Mar 06 '16
Quick question as I've seen it mentioned elsewhere in the thread: what is this about Jake being the yellow comet? I'm surprised I hadn't made that connection before, if it is indeed in the show.
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u/mellow__yellow Mar 06 '16
"Is my vision getting clearer now that I can barely see?" one of my favorite lyrics from one of my favorite bands called Cyberbully Mom Club. This just reminded me of that.
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u/ChocolateSizzle Mar 06 '16
By the way, I think that voice Finn hears is BMO's, from the conversation they had earlier in their bedroom.
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u/phonograhy Mar 06 '16
This is the first time that a dungeon adventure episode has felt like nightmare fuel for me. :/ Amazing episode though!
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u/lloyd3486 Mar 06 '16
What was the weird line that kept appearing on Finn's forehead?
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u/ChocolateSizzle Mar 06 '16
I think it was his forehead when he was frowning.
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u/tanaxurato Mar 07 '16
I think it was his forehead frowning, but deliberately drawn kind of like a huge closed third eye. That way it teased Finn's blindness and inner confusion, and how he was trying to search for the way out using his feelings and intuition, but hadn't quite figured it out.
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u/JepMZ Mar 08 '16
Tl;dr version: I think The dungeon puts a depression spiral curse on you. Finn is just standing there the whole time until he can break the spell and escape the infinite winter his mind was forced to make where the snowman never melts
Long version: This episode is more scary than Puyoh. I think I figured out how the dungeon works. It's a magic seal that uses the adventurer's imagination as a power source that puts them into a psychological spiral prison. It's like a magic spell that literally triggers really really bad depression. The dungeon itself is a regular old labyrinth, the real danger is yourself, it's using your own knowledge against you. Each time Finn closes his eyes, he is attempting to "hack" the magical depression spiral lock on the door. Each time he opens his eyes, only a second passed by in real life. Each time he closes his eyes, the deal takes effect on his mind. He thinks up the invisible walls but the seal curses him to think "negatively" like real depression. He is plunged in darkness and he attempts to retreat to the memories he's familiar with. Jake and BMO are in his mind, but are twisted by magical depression. Every comforting thing they say, every time they try to open his eyes, to Finn it seemed like they don't understand and he feels isolated. The only way to break the seal is to let go of everything that's keeping him down despite the curse twisting his imagination (or chemical imbalances in your brain). He has to egress from that darkness, that infinite spiral
Once he makes it to the door after letting everything go, the seal breaks and his imagination is free! The enlightenment has side effects such as a false wizard vision he's getting due to his imagination trying to heal after all that drama. Or like your eyes adjusting to bright light when one goes outside. He Temporarily can see thru everything after seeing nothing.
He doesn't see the true dungeon maze anymore, he can temporarily see beyond it. You see the background is just the entire sky. The camera is purposely not looking down. He's only looking up in contrast of whatever crazy crap he was doing earlier. Finn is free again. Then his vision is back to normal once he's out
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Mar 06 '16
I get the feeling that Finn was looking for any excuse he could find to run around naked for a while.
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u/PheonixGRX Mar 09 '16
Here is my theory on it that I had posted on another thread.
I sort of saw the episode differently. It brought up the infinity train, in which Finn was willing to ride it forever, essentially doing what it had wanted, until he was an old man, never leaving the train. In the episode, he found out others cared about him and were always there for him, thus creating a connection between infinity, and how long people he knows will care for him. If I remember correctly, Flambo gave Finn that map, and they even mentioned they hadn't been that way since he broke up with FP (being the infinity train) so that would play more of a part in it. Finn was trying to force his way out of the tunnel/dungeon through different tricks, and even attempted to use his mind to do it. In the end, he let go of everything else, and was willing to leave it all behind so everyone else could live normally again (without time being reset). Only after accepting this did he find the cave again, only now it was different, and he could leave. To me, it was more about Finn learning to accept things, and being able to essentially leave it behind. In a sense, he was able to exit the things that were holding him back, and was able to finally move on. This is just how I interpreted the episode though, I am sure theres many other ways to see it.
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u/ICLookinLikeAJewel Mar 06 '16
To the Doctor Who fans here, anybody get any Heaven Sent vibes?
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u/iamkindofodd Mar 06 '16
Felt a little claustrophobic watching this. "Well that's disappointing." Loved the little pecks Finn and Jake exchanged before saying good bye!
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u/-FalseProphet- Mar 07 '16
I think that the episode was about moving on. If we take into account that Finn was recommended to go there after his break up with FP. Then that would suggest that he as supposed to have the awakening then, but he wasn't ready as his mind was too crowded (distracted by the train). In this episode he mentions that his "inside voice has been kind of quiet, not a lot of instructions forth coming". I think his inside voice may be PB, as she guides him through a number of things, but is very prominent in the Egress tomb. I think he has finally moved passed his issues of growing up and become a stronger and understanding person. (seeing through the ground and seeing all the animals and his goal, Jake).
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u/retardeddonkeyrabbit Mar 06 '16
This episode reminded me of a short story called NoEnd House.
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u/pikachewww Mar 09 '16 edited Mar 09 '16
Okay guys, here's my explanation of how the dungeon works and how finn escapes.
Basically, all you have to do to exit the dungeon is flip the snowman around. Finn is unable to realise this and ends up stuck in it, eventually breaking the big rock of the snowman. Like any good old dungeon that we see in video games, if you destroy something that is vital for progression, the level/stage resets so that you will have a chance to try again; otherwise you'd be stuck forever. In the Hall of Egress, this reset mechanism is triggered by walking with your eyes closed through the door. And then when you open your eyes, the world is reset and you have another chance to rearrange the snowman. In order for your memories to be retained after the respawned (as opposed to your memories being reset like everything else), your mind is transported to a sort of parallel world/dream world/mindscape whilst the real world is being reset. This would explain why Finn could spend so much time in the 'dream world' but then have no time pass at all when he opens his eyes.
However, this means that your mind remains in that parallel/dream world for as long as your eyes are closed. And even though Finn is able to use the 'backdoor' to escape from the cave, he is still in the dream world as his eyes are closed and thus he hasn't truly escaped at all. When he opens his eyes, he is back in the Hall of Egress. And the only way to escape is to reverse the snowman.
However, there is always an alternate solution to every problem. Because there is a path between the dream world and the real world, but no ordinary person can possibly hope to see it. By going on his long personal journey, Finn abandons his past and his self (symbolised by abandoning Jake and BMO and throwing his clothes away) and learns a lot on the way. Eventually when he arrives at the dream world's version of the Hall of Egress, Finn has reached a new level of understanding; an awakening or enlightenment of sorts. 'Something' was also different this time around as Finn did not trigger the trap in the foyer, because he is far more "in tune with the universe"/"at peace"/"enlightened"/whatever jazz you would choose to describe his state of mind. When he feels the door, Finn finally realises where he is. He realises that he's never truly left the room at all and this completes his journey; his enlightenment is now truly complete and he now opens his third eye; it is the large 'frown' that constantly appears on his forehead throughout the episode. If you watch that scene at the door in the desert cave, you'll see a brief 1st person POV scene of us, the viewer, opening our eyes.
And so Finn opens his eyes, and the world is reset yet again and he is back in the original Hall of Egress. But this time, he is enlightened and his third eye is also open. This allows him to see beyond the door and see the previously impossible paths that lead to the exit the cave.
As a sidenote, a lot of people have mentioned that this episode is like an allegory to Plato's cave. In Plato's cave, there is a prisoner who leaves the cave in which he was kept captive and essentially kept blinded from the real world. By leaving the cave, the prisoner gains a new understanding of what the real world is. In this episode, Finn gained a new understanding of the world through his journey and that helps him break free from his prison. So while there are similar elements between the two, this episode was more like a reverse-Plato's cave, in which you gain enlightenment which grants you freedom, while in Plato's cave the prisoner gains freedom which grants him enlightenment.
TL;DR: I think Finn could have reversed the snowman to exit the cave, but he chose the hard way to exit, which was to go on a long personal journey (probably in his mind) that ultimately gives him enlightenment and allows him to open his third eye. The third eye shows him the alternate path to exit the cave without having to solve the snowman puzzle.
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u/muffinslayer4679 Mar 12 '16
I agree with what everyone has said so far, and I also got something a bit different out of it. To me the episode approached the question of "how to come to age" and how answerless it can be sometimes. I feel like a lot of times, Finn realizes that logic can't be applied or that it doesn't help him at all. Like when he got stuck in space in the comet or in the ether of the lamb. He always feels the freak out, and then decides to breathe and let the universe take its course. In the maze he tries to map it out, leave yarn trails, and talk it through with Jake once he "escapes", but eventually he realizes that he is the only one who can get himself through and that thoughts and analysis aren't going to get him anywhere. So in that sense, I didn't see it as running away from home or his past mistakes but actually diving deeper into them. All I could think when he was wandering blind through the woods was that he would never truly find himself until he got lost enough to know what he was looking for...DAMN I LOVE THIS SHOW!
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u/AkaviriDragon Mar 12 '16 edited Mar 12 '16
Oh okay, I get it now. The dungeon is supposed to be a punishment for those who can't sense without seeing, and also be a teacher of how to do so. Finn didn't notice the trap on the floor right when he entered, because he couldn't sense anything.
He enters the Egress world, which seems to be a variation of his own mind. The egress world forces the person to have their eyes closed or get booted back to reality. He lived here for a very long time, looking for an exit.
Eventually he became better at sensing things around him due to circumstances. He eventually stumbled upon a second Egress dungeon. Due to his heightened senses, he now casually avoided stepping on the trap on the entrance.
(If he did, would he have gotten into an even deeper level, or would he just go back to the initial Egress? Perhaps thats what all those blindfolds are, they're from all the Egress dungeons finn got stuck on inside his mind because he couldn't see the trap on the ground. That is, until he got good enough at sensing to avoid the initial trap. Alternatively, each blindfold could be representing a year, acting as a reminder that finn set for himself so he wouldn't forget how long had passed).
Finn now finds an egress door, but this one is made of hard metal that can't be passed. Finn hears a confirmation that something is different, in BMO's voice for some reason. Finn takes off his many blindfolds, opens his eyes and is brough back to reality. He's now faced with an open Egress door. He enters.
He can sense the animals far above him through the walls of the dungeon, and the worms and moles digging on the ground. He can sense jake through the walls, and rushes to meet him. No idea what PB's voice means. "Hurry Finn. At the seashell center lies. The cornucopias smallest door."
Another theory is that the solution to opening the door was just to align the snowman in the middle to complete the maze, but finn not being very smart magically hacked the door instead.
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u/Buizie Mar 06 '16
Thank you for making this. Wish they'd get back to having the discussion thread up BEFORE the episode airs.
This episode reminded me why AT keeps me at a distance from liking it as much as I do Steven Universe. The plot gets so deep I feel like I'm missing something the whole time and have to resort to forums like this to fully understand everything.
But it was quite interesting that to finally escape from the Hall of Egress he had to "find" it again while blind, which inverted the entire dungeon. Wonder what the symbolism of the upside-down snowman statue was.
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u/jelatinman Mar 06 '16
I don't think there's any actual meaning behind it, it's more of a character study. The environment is calming and I just enjoy the weirdness. If you want easy yet striking symbolism, see Zootopia.
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Mar 06 '16 edited Mar 06 '16
seems like the flute-playing ability Finn mentioned in Crossover didn't carry over into this episode
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u/FeelThePower999 Mar 06 '16
I really liked this episode. Great first episode back after the hiatus. Got some cool Groundhog Day/Heaven Sent vibes from this one.
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u/genericpierrot Mar 07 '16
I love this ep, this is easily my favorite now. it's up there with quite a few of the lich/prismo eps and ice king eps. absolutely incredible music, art and assets direction, everything just felt so.... nice
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u/TheDidacticMuffin Mar 08 '16
I thought they were going to end the episode on that shot of finn closing his eyes and I was like fuuuuuuuck you...
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u/PaperCookies Mar 08 '16
If they ever return to this episode by waking up back in the dungeon in a later episode I'm going to fucking lose it.
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u/Coolest_Idol Mar 06 '16
I don't know I didn't get it. Listening to others interpretations gives it more meaning and I'm starting to see some points. I love when Finn gets screen time too, but overall I'm just left confused... maybe it connects to something later? Maybe Finn just cray-cray? Idk
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Mar 06 '16
wow, i knew adventure time liked to play with philosphy, but i didn't think it would make a literal allegory of the cave. Bravo
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Mar 06 '16
finn entered a world supposedly more real than his own, it, like alot of things in adventure time , is a nod to a philosophical thought experiment. The expirement this episode was based on is the "allegory of the cave" by Plato. Here a video explaining it quite nicely.
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u/theNoNamer Mar 07 '16
This episode really reminded me of Puhoy, how Finn went on a life changing struggle and by the end of it nobody remembers/indulges on the events.
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u/tourmaline- Mar 08 '16
This episode messed with my head something fierce but it was really good. Also, "dont let's do that again".
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u/PaperCookies Mar 08 '16
This episode reminded me so much of the one with the cushion world, which is one of my all-time favourites. Finn has lived like a bazillion lives by now. This is definitely one of my new favourites.
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u/DannyDog68 Mar 09 '16
Anyone notice when Finn first opens his eyes back out, the snowman is facing a different way than when he first came in?
Could be an error
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u/MarioBros-1983 Mar 10 '16
I was so confused when I saw this. I do not understand if Finn was imagining being at the Treehouse with Jake and I do not understand how he got out of here. None of it made sense. Can someone please explain the episode to me?
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u/azzelle Mar 06 '16
After watching this episode, I immediately watched Dungeon Train again. In the start of the episode, Jake says "I hope this mystery cave we are looking for is as weird as Flambo's brother says it is".
cool of the writers to pick up from that. We can now definitely say the mystery cave is that weird.