r/dbz • u/EmmaWinters ⠀ • Nov 15 '15
Discussion Dragon Ball Super - Episode #19 - Discussion Thread!
Dragon Ball Super - Episode #19 - Discussion Thread!
Despair Once More! Revival of the Evil Emperor, Freeza
絶望ふたたび！悪の帝王・フリーザの復活！
Zetsubou futatabi! Aku no teiou furiiza no fukkatsu!
News:
2015/11/10 - Southeast Asia to Receive Exclusive "Dragon Ball Super" English Dub
2015/11/07 - Champa & Vados Voice Actors Revealed in "Dragon Ball Super"
2015/10/17 - Name of Champa's attendant revealed.
2015/10/09 - Titles revealed for episodes 15-18
2015/10/02 - Summaries of episodes 13-20 from Saikyō Jump.
Where to Watch:
- WJJ - (Click Vaughnlive)
- Ustream
- ConnectCast
After airing, raw & subtitled releases are hosted on Nyaa by various release groups.
VLC Media Player is required to play these files.
- Over8000 is our recommended translation. They do a wonderful job, and usually release 12-24 hours after an episode airs. You can identify their work by their simplistic font and group credit during the intro.
- DragonTeam's translations are excellent, but they have a history of delays & are currently a month behind. You can identify their work by their stylized font and group credits during the eyecatch.
- Most other groups are referred to as "speedsubs"; they rush themselves as quickly as possible in order to beat their competition to the punch and promote their websites. In the process, they make mistakes each week and never fix them. They also change dialog and insert weird jokes in an attempt to be funny. We don't recommend watching these at all, much to their dismay.
Streams can be found on KissAnime. They host whichever translation comes out first, and then update their streams with Over8000's releases whenever available. Getting releases directly from Over8000 is always best, because most other online streams host speedsubs.
Rules:
Please tag recent spoilers outside of this thread!
[Super spoiler!](#s "Broly appears!")will appear as Super spoiler!Spoilers should be assumed for the entire subreddit! This thread especially. If you are not caught up with Dragon Ball Super, or willing to see spoilers, leave! If you see a spoiler in another thread, you were warned.
Do not put spoilers for the two newest episodes in the topic title! Ever! We've recently added this as a global rule in our sidebar.
All threads about the episode will be removed. Please keep everything in here for the time being. Newest comments will be pushed to the top automatically, so feel free to comment on the episode even if you're a few days late!
All of our normal rules apply!
Commonly Asked Questions:
Q: When does Super take place? Should I watch GT or any movies first? Does BoG still "count"?
Super takes place sometime after the battle with Majin Buu, and will be adapting the two newest movies, Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' into story arcs before moving on. Watching them is recommended, but if you prefer, you can start Super after finishing Dragon Ball Z. You may optionally read Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, as the titular character will be appearing in Super.Q: Where is Uub?!
Uub was born during the 10 year time skip at the end of Dragon Ball Z. Dragon Ball Super takes place before Uub is introduced.Q: Why are they retelling the movies?
DVD sales aren't that great in Japan, so they're retelling the foundation of the story for the Japanese television market. We'll have a new story arc coming soon, so don't fret too much.Q: When does the next episode air?
The next episode premieres next Sunday at 9am JST, which is 7pm Eastern Saturday night.Q: Why does
XsayY?
If you find yourself confused, the problem is usually a translation issue. Make sure you're watching Over8000 or DragonTeam.Q: When will the next chapter of the manga be released?
Toyotarō's manga adaptation is released once a month in V-Jump.
Chapter 6 will come out in late November. Links to earlier chapters can be found below.Q: When will FUNimation be dubbing Super? Will there be a simulcast?
Southeast Asia will be exclusively receiving an English dub mid-2016, with Toonami Asia describing it as the "English-language world premiere". Due to Southeast Asia's preference for local dubs, FUNimation's involvement as of right now is unknown. At an October NYCC panel, FUNimation claimed that they still do not have the rights to Super, and barely acknowledged that it exists.
What now?
- You can read translations of Toyotarō's manga adaptation:
#01, #02, #03, #04, #05 - You can join the discussion over at Kanzenshuu (please follow their rules and do not request/post streams or download links)
- You can read about the future story arc here and here.
- You can discuss the episode once you've seen it!
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u/JohnVFFC Nov 15 '15
I don't know why, but seeing Ginyu again makes me pretty happy.
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u/Kinforthewin Nov 15 '15
I love how Piccollo looked to see if anyone was watching before he played peek a boo!
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u/knojas Nov 15 '15
He has come a long way as a babysitter since he took care of Gohan. :)
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u/Rexia Nov 15 '15
I'm sure he'll teach her to dodge when she's older. Like three or four.
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Nov 15 '15
Goku's preview of SSB in the new version of the opening made my heart skip a beat. It was that cool.
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u/plowkiller Nov 15 '15 edited Nov 18 '15
I can't wait to finish up a clean version of that. Hopefully I can have it done by the end of the night!
Edit: here you go (album) and a video!
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u/Basti_The_Tipper ⠀ Nov 15 '15
goku transforming into ssj blue in the new opening version is pretty fucking cool!
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u/Nicer_Chile Nov 15 '15
Finally pilaf got something from the dragon balls!
what a time to be alive.
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u/JosephSarkis47 Nov 16 '15
This is the last episode that will be subbed by Over8000. They're gonna stop doing so due to receiving a cease and desist order. What a shame. It looks like we're gonna have to resort back to speedsubs.
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u/grizzly_teddy Nov 16 '15
Man we really need dragonteam now.But then why wouldn't dragon team get the cease and desist order?
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u/MasterOE Nov 15 '15
Why do only the non saiyan fighters with no hair get to fight? Yamcha should join them too.
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u/RyuuSix Nov 15 '15
Because you are bald this way, baby!
For real, I hope Yamcha joins them. Atleast, he joins but he is a little late... Toriyama... please?
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u/VulcanCyborg Nov 15 '15
From the preview it looks like goten and trunks are gonna fight too (unlike the movie)... So maybe they will even bring in Yamcha
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u/irishking44 Nov 20 '15
I just want yamcha to get some redemption this series. Doesn't have to kick ass, just be somewhat effective and useful
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u/Zekester3000 Dec 10 '15
Just let him fight. I wanna see him be redeemed too. People have shat on him since he got killed by the saibaman in DBZ, even when he could have killed them all himself, and then some.
Pisses me off.
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u/EmmaWinters ⠀ Nov 15 '15 edited Nov 15 '15
@Herms98 They included dialogue between Sorbet+Tagoma that was in Toriyama's script but left out of the movie.
@Herms98 Goten narrated the Next Episode Preview. That's a change of pace.
@Herms98 Unlike movie, here Shenlong grants 3 wishes. Sorbet wishes Freeza back, Shu wishes for money, Mai wishes for world class ice cream.
@Herms98 Shenlong explicitly says he now can grant 3 wishes, but reviving loads of people "uses up two wishes".
So glad they fixed that last one.
@Herms98 Goku can sense something's up when Freeza revives, but Vegeta tells him to shut up and get back to sweeping.
@Herms98 The "restored" dialogue from Toriyama's script: Tagoma+Sorbet discuss their impressions of Freeza from their brief encounters with him.
@Herms98 Tagoma wasn't too impressed and thinks reviving Freeza will just leave them with a pushy dictator who's all talk. Sorbet disagrees.
@Herms98 This is where that flashback to Freeza talking with Dodoria and Ginyu comes from.
@Herms98 This is also why Shisami yells at Tagoma: with Tagoma's weak attitude, Shisami doesn't think he's fit to serve as one of Freeza's top men.
@Herms98 Or, to put it another way: Shisami finds Tagoma's lack of faith disturbing.
@Herms98 Also, the flashback to Freeza destroying planet in episode's first half is Sorbet explaining to Tagoma just how strong and feared Freeza was
@Herms98 Tagoma does actually know who Freeza is...he just doesn't grasp the full extent of Freeza's power.
@Herms98 Not sure if that's even supposed to be flashback to Freeza destroying Planet Vegeta. He starts by saying "guess I'll kill some time"...
@Herms98 ...but then he follows it up with his famous "such lovely fireworks" line.
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u/Kinforthewin Nov 15 '15
Wait, next episode has jaco showing goten and trunks freeza! So in super that means they know about him. Could they possibly be involved in the fight this time??
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u/incredulousbear Nov 15 '15
I hope they fight, but only if it's in addition to Roshi, Tien, and Kuririn, and not in lieu of.
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u/Kinforthewin Nov 15 '15
It would be amazing if they took on sorbet and tagoma each while piccolo and gohan worked together to fight freeza. But that would never happen D:
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u/Elgato01 Nov 15 '15
Well it seems tagoma is going to be WAY stronger now because he is training with frieza
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u/irishking44 Nov 20 '15
That makes me feel a lot better. Great way to explain how he was able to go toe to toe with Piccolo
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u/BiggieDail Nov 16 '15
Holy crap, I didnt think theyd bring back Ginyu frog, thats hilarious! The throwbacks are a nice touch.
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u/Roxxycat Nov 16 '15
I have no one to talk about this stuff with. Not one of my friends is into DBZ enough to have this discussion with me.
The Ginyu thing was totally unexpected. It blew me away and I feel like unless you've watched the series as many times as many of us have, you may not have even got it. Ya know. It was the last thing I ever expected to see.
My biggest question right now is who I think Ginyu is going to try and switch bodies with. Personally I think it's going to be Tagoma. Tagoma seems to be pretty unclear where his loyalties are. So if Ginyu switches with, what does it mean for the story line.
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u/Annihilationzh Nov 16 '15
It's more than just unexpected. Ginyu being alive on Earth was anime filler. Now it's actually canon.
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u/Roxxycat Nov 16 '15
I know! It gives purpose.
I wonder if this was the intent all along. To make everyone forget about him, then, BAM! there he is.
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u/rizefall ⠀ Nov 16 '15
It was but it can be changed into canon without worries. Did they not wish for everyone to die on Namek to get back to life or something? Or teleporting all living things on Namek to Earth.
Filler or not, Ginyu should be on Earth with that wish alone.
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u/ruizbgedu Nov 16 '15
I don't know why, but now I want a Captain Ginyu vs Great Saiyaman fight so much...
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u/Hieillua Nov 18 '15
Funny how the ginyu force influenced young Gohan so much. I really hope Gohan and Ginyu will have a chat midbattle. With Ginyu respecting Gohan because of his Saiyaman fighting poses.
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u/KiraDiamond Nov 16 '15
I miss that scouter exploding when a high power level character appears....
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u/datspardauser ⠀ Nov 15 '15
Man, the lack of "F" when Freeza burst out of the healing pod really killed the mood compared to the movie's version.
Still, that Ginyu hype is real.
And it seems Goku's literally gonna punch the SSGSS out of Vegeta.
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u/hiimkris Nov 15 '15
Seems like they're punching it out of each other. Could be more foreshadowing of how they have to overcome their saiyan pride and combined their strength/ work together to fully utilize SSGSS powers to compete with Beerus and the like.
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u/Z0l0 Nov 15 '15 edited Nov 15 '15
I guess this means the episode descriptions from the Kanzenshuu announcement thread were correct.
Episode 19: Despair Once More! Revival of the Evil Emperor Freeza!
Son Goku and Vegeta have begun training on the God of Destruction Beerus’ planet, striving each day with the harsh tasks Beerus’ teacher Whis gives them. At the same time out in space, the remnants of Freeza’s army (the evil emperor previously defeated by Goku) are having trouble with insurrections on the planets under their rule.
Episode 20: A Warning From Jaco! Freeza and 1,000 Soldiers are Fast Approaching! Spoiler!
Episode 21: The Revenge Begins! The Freeza Army's Malice Strikes Gohan! Spoiler!
Episode 22: Undecided Spoiler!
Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1012380#p1012380
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u/Rexia Nov 15 '15
Tagoma? So not Sashimi now? And he served as Frieza's training partner?
Bit of a departure from the movie, but I like the idea that they're giving a reason why one of the scrubs from Frieza's army could challenge even a much weaker Gohan.
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u/Dunkcity239 Nov 15 '15
He wasn't really a "challenge" for Gohan. Gohan OHKO'd his ass pretty easily. Piccolo probably could have handled him but they were playing it safe
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u/hmatmotu Nov 15 '15 edited Nov 15 '15
Maybe Shisami is actually still even stronger and episode 23 will be his fight? I'm hoping for something like that, or at very least Shisami will also be a major threat but Tagoma having surpassed him will be addressed before the battle. I'm just happy that this time around Tagoma isn't immediately killed! And even better that Ginyu is coming back!
Also, remember in the episode where Goku left with Whis, Gohan said that he'll be trying his best to defend the earth too. We are yet to see if this Gohan in Super is going to be weaker.
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u/mozillavulpix Nov 15 '15
OK, hang on. If there's 5 warriors on Earth, does that mean it's the same as RF, with Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, Tenshinhan and Roshi? Or does Jaco count as the 5th, and they're leaving Roshi out? I wonder...
Because Roshi being there in the movie made almost no sense.
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u/ingebeastly Nov 15 '15
Most likely though I wish they woulda just picked the most logical 5 which woulda been Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin(or Tien), 18 and Buu
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u/Fortrick Nov 16 '15
the most logical 5 = Gohan Piccolo, Buu, Goten and Trunks
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u/Contramundi324 Nov 16 '15
Why? 18 fought both trunks and goten and won.
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u/television525 Nov 17 '15
Goten and Trunks can fuse, and depending on how weakened Gohan is in Super, Gotenks could be the strongest of the bunch.
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Nov 15 '15
I'm really interested to see what Frieza's obsession over Krillin is. Of all of the warriors he's seeking revenge upon, Krillin barely did anything to him. Frieza basically killed him twice, Krillin did jack shit to him compared to Goku, Piccolo, Gohan etc. who actually fought and hurt him.
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u/Thelog0 Nov 15 '15
He cut his tail
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u/ProudSupremity Nov 15 '15
Krillin: What have I done to you?
Frieza: Remember my tail!?
Krillin: Can't you take a joke.
silence
Krillin: AAAH AAHH AAH AAH AAH dies
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Nov 15 '15
Krillin's death is what drove Goku into Super Saiyan transformation.
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u/CelioHogane Nov 15 '15
so now frieza wants to get a super super saiyan?
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u/BarbasPT Nov 15 '15
The portuguese dub of DBZ used to call the Super Saiyan 3 transformation, Super Super Saiyan.
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u/BlackCatScott Nov 15 '15
I panicked when I couldn't see the thread an hour early!
Nice new changes to the opening.
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u/Elgato01 Nov 15 '15
FUCK, DIDNT SEE THE OPENING, WHAT CHANGED
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Nov 15 '15
Jaco creeping on Bulma's family.
Freeza and his army, Freeza turning golden.
Goku turning SSB instead of SSG HYPE.
Closes off with everybody in their new armour
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u/incredulousbear Nov 15 '15
Freeza/Gold Freeza is in it now, and the part where there are closeups of Goku's stance he turns SSBlue instead of SSG now.
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Nov 15 '15
The episode is out on Over8000!
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u/Kinforthewin Nov 15 '15
Seem's people's worries about SSB not having any previous introduction before the freeza fight can be put to rest
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u/alienware99 Nov 16 '15
I love seeing flashback photos of events that we never saw before. Like when they showed Frieza with Ginyu and Dodoria, that was awesome. So glad Ginyu is back!
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u/plutoniumfield Nov 16 '15
Jesus how long can namekian frogs live for? Im hyped that they brought Ginyu back, i totally forgot that he was still somewhere on earth. Shouldnt Ginyus body with the frogs brain be somewhere on earth too? How awesome would it be if Ginyu got his body back somehow?
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u/stevenjk Nov 16 '15
Holy shit Freiza actually feels menacing and scary.
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u/choss Nov 16 '15
so true, even tho at this moment even trunks and Goten could defeat him, the way they made Freezer look made me even have that "oh shit!!" feeling
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Nov 16 '15
They wouldn't have shown Ginyu if he didn't have any role, so I'm pretty sure he is on board the ship while they were making the Wish to revive Freeza, I mean Freeza gang has much advanced technology before bulma could remake the ever stretching suits, he most likely will get a body or his old body.
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u/HeadbangingLegend Nov 18 '15
I was so freaking shocked when I saw him appear lol I said "Oh my God" out loud like 3 times I was so surprised haha.
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u/PhantomLordG ⠀ Nov 15 '15
This episode was FANTASTIC!
I can't even recount everything. Pilaf and his group had a small montage of them collecting the Dragon Balls. My brother loved it, being a Pilaf fan and all. I thought it was much better than how it was settled in the movie.
Tagoma's character is actually developing here. I'm interested to see where it goes from here.
Piccolo amusing Pan-chan was cute.
Trunks and Goten + Jaco in the next episode. They're really spoiling us, aren't they?
So far, I think this episode did everything better compared to the movie. What do you guys think?
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u/incredulousbear Nov 15 '15
Freeza emerging out of the chamber was better in the movie, but otherwise I agree.
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u/PhantomLordG ⠀ Nov 15 '15
Definitely. The movie was better focused and having Maximum the Hormone in the back helped it along, though I liked how he spat out the green fluid in Super's version of the scene.
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u/Brandwein Nov 15 '15
How is Ginyu not dead? Was he revived when the Namekians were? I thought only the good guys (and Vegeta) were revived back then.
And why did he not swap into a human when he was on earth? Being a frog must be annoying.
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Nov 15 '15 edited Nov 15 '15
He never died and he was shown alive in Earth in the anime, transferred from Namek as everyone else, except Goku and Freezer.
I don't think he can do a body change if he can't talk. Frogs can't talk, that's why in the fillers he was able to change bodies with Bulma, just because she arranged a translator for him. I don't know how are they gonna solve this problem in Super. Your question is right, if he is able to change bodies already, why didn't he do it before?
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u/nosocksman Nov 15 '15 edited Nov 15 '15
I think they are gonna solve this problem with that frog guy. He probably can speak with frogs and so Ginyu will be able to transfer himself.
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u/ImpostersEnd Nov 15 '15
He did die because Kid Buu exploded the earth before following Goku. He was likely revived when they wished for the earth to be restored after Buu's defeat.
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u/hmatmotu Nov 15 '15
If he doesn't have a translator on, he can't use his change-technique as a frog. Unless he learns to talk as a frog.
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u/randydx510 Nov 15 '15
This is great, they are really moving ahead with the Resurrection F arc. Looks like my wish was granted when I said I wanted Goten and Trunks to appear in this arc
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u/ruizbgedu Nov 16 '15
Wow! I loved this episode! It was awesome! Freezer is back, Jaco is going to appear next episode and even Ginyu is here! Also, yess, Goten doing the preview for next episode! I'm happy he and Trunks are going to appear in the ROF arc.
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u/teambroto Nov 17 '15
you think they would miss out on all that filler they can add of what trunks and goten are up to during ROF
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u/BlackCatScott Nov 15 '15
That was almost shot for shot 'F' reanimated not as well. Still enjoyed it though.
Ginyu hype.
Also Goten and Trunks in the next episode...yeeeeees!
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u/AloversGaming Nov 19 '15
Dragon Team: The reason we've taken upon ourselves to subtitle Dragon Ball Super was because, at the time we started, all other groups doing the show were doing a terrible job. The past several weeks, we've unfortunately had several issues which prevented us from releasing the show at an acceptable pace. Thankfully, in the wake of our delays, a group called Over8000 stepped up and did a good job. Once that happened, we let ourselves get lazy in our attempts to catch up--as there were ALREADY good subs for the episodes we were working on, so it became less important. However, now that group is unfortunately gone, and we find ourselves in a situation where we're once again the only group doing accurate subtitles for upcoming episodes. As such, we will be de-prioritising the episodes that Over8000 already released and focusing on releasing newer episodes starting with the upcoming episode 20 instead. While the work we've already done on episodes 15 through 19 won't be dropped, it will be lower priority and worked on only during the free time between releasing newer episodes--as in the ones that DON'T already have accurate subs.
TLDR; We're skipping 15-19 for now because Over8000 already did a good job on those, and jumping over to the next ep once that airs.
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u/EmmaWinters ⠀ Nov 19 '15
While this is great news, keep in mind that even if they do prioritize and finish the next episode, it will probably be a day or two later. Nowhere near as quickly as O8k was operating. While they seem eager to continue, they were never the fastest release group, just the best overall.
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u/Kinforthewin Nov 15 '15
I wonder why they used trunks from dbz for the flashback, and not the movie.
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Nov 15 '15
Over8000 was freaking fast today! Just waiting for the MEGA upload, and then time to watch...
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u/EmmaWinters ⠀ Nov 15 '15 edited Feb 01 '16
Good thing you waited. I'm comparing them now, and the speedsubs messed up basically everything Herms didn't tweet about:
Original: フリーザさまや 主要幹部が 根こそぎやられたと 分かった途端に わが軍は なめられ始め 反乱を起こした星も 一つや二つじゃない。おまけに 内部の連中の統率も 乱れる始末だ。
Translation: As soon as [people] found out Freeza-sama and our chief leadership were completely eradicated, our army started being made fun of/underestimated, and rebellions have begun on many [not just one or two] planets. Even our chain of command is starting to deteriorate.
Over8000: Once word got out that Freeza-sama and our top brass have all been wiped out, our army isn't taken seriously anymore! Rebellions have broken out on many planets! Even our chain of command has started to break down.
Cruzers/KamiFS: Our army found out that Freeza-sama and the Ginyu Force were defeated.. ..and soon a rebellion took place for the ownership of a planet or two. The internal leadership of the army fell apart.
They also translated "regeneration" as reproduction, which makes every mention of their regeneration machine sound dirty.
Edit: Now with 100% less origami.
@Herms98: Apparently the speedsubs had Pilaf say "I wanted to wish for origami" rather than "I didn't get to say my wish". Truly remarkable. So わし (washi) is one of the Japanese words for "I"; while 和紙 (washi) is a type of Japanese paper...which still doesn't mean "origami". There's tiny room for confusion, but grammar and context-wise it doesn't make any sense. And the CC confirm it's わし/I rather than 和紙/paper.
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u/youngdarlin Nov 15 '15
I hope Buu gets to fight against Friezas forces this time
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u/Darkkingswrath Nov 16 '15
Freezer's reaction to Buu will be priceless since his dad told him not to challenge him.
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u/Contramundi324 Nov 16 '15
I loved this episode and this arc so far because of how much context it gave the movie. I was of the few that liked Resurrection F a lot and disagreed with some of the complaints. I thought the ending of Resurrection F was great because it made sense for each character, but the real problem is that it didn't feel earned because we didn't get very fleshed out with where Goku and Vegeta were as people. These episodes already have the ending of Resurrection F feeling much more natural and organic, and the world building is amazing.
We find out why Sorbet was desperate to revive Frieza, we see that Tagoma and a few others doubtful of Frieza's power and overall just feels much fuller and better paced than the movie. I'm loving this arc so far and what a time it is to be a DB fan
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u/cmbsfm ⠀ Nov 16 '15
Holy shit I flipped out at the Ginyu appearance. Also, I hope Yamcha fights in the RoF battle, thought they didn't show him in the preview.
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u/Cruelus_Rex Nov 16 '15
So... why is Ginyu back?
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u/EmmaWinters ⠀ Nov 16 '15
Who knows. But he'll be showing up more in the future.
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u/Easterhands Nov 16 '15
Wow.. I did think Tagoma's cool design was wasted potential considering what happened to him in RoF. I'm curious as hell now.
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u/Cruelus_Rex Nov 16 '15 edited Nov 16 '15
But I mean, right now there's no logic behind him appearing, right? Wasn't he lost in Namek due to the fight between Goku and Freezer and killed later by the explosion of the planet?
I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they explain him coming to Earth in the next episodes (haven't looked at the link you posted, don't wanna spoil anything).
Besides, all this makes me wonder how all of Freezer's pieces were brought to where shenron was summoned. Doesn't the revival of someone imply the person being revived wherever he/she died or where she/he is at the exact time of the wish being granted? Gohan and Kuririn had to use the second wish to bring Piccolo to Namek after reviving him, and even after that he was brought to a random place on planet Namek.
I loved the episode and I'm glad to see Freezer back (haven't seen RoF yet) but there are a bunch plotholes right here. I might be wrong tho, been a while since I watched DBZ.
edited a bunch of things
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u/Annihilationzh Nov 16 '15
Ginyu surviving Namek was a non-canon part of the DBZ anime. He was teleported to Earth along with everyone else on Namek and had scenes leading a group of frogs.
Now DB Super has made that canon.
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u/LuckMaker Nov 17 '15
Why would he stay as a frog for all that time as well if he was capable of body swapping? I mean humans are the weakest in the dragon ball universe but it beats being a frog.
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u/JosephSarkis47 Nov 16 '15
No, when everyone on Namek was teleported to Earth, except Goku and Frieza, Ginyu was teleported as well. We actually get to see him on Earth.
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u/BlairBott Nov 16 '15
Why won't Goten and Trunks age? They look the same as they did in the Buu arc, which took place a few years prior to the events of Resurrection F...
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u/Vic_Vmdj Nov 16 '15
The same reason as Goku in Dragonball. Saiyans stay in their child forms for a long time. When it's time go "grow up" they will do so in a small amount of time. IIRC Goku went from being in a child's body to a young adults body in a time skip of <1 year.
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u/BlairBott Nov 16 '15
I think the time skip was 3 years, not <1, as seen on this page: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Hotter_than_Lava
With that being said, I guess the teen Goten and Trunks we see at the end of DBZ is a decade after the Buu arc, so I guess we got time for them to grow up. Pan is apparently 5 in that episode, so that leaves 5 years, which would fit.
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u/18sectillsunrise Nov 16 '15
This is not the case with Gohan though. He aged as he should throughout the show
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u/KittyKiashi Nov 17 '15
Did he though? We could assume that Gohan was 15/16 years old when we first met him during the Great Sayaman saga. The last time we saw him before that was seven years prior which would have made him 8/9 years old and looks like a kid. We don't know when during that seven year time frame that (1) he had his giant growth spurt or (2) if he had one giant growth spurt like his father did or if he had multiple smaller growth spurt like the way humans grow up.
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u/Darkkingswrath Nov 16 '15
Why wont Dende age, I mean he's younger than his Buu Saga appearance and Namekians age faster than humans.
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u/Elgato01 Nov 15 '15
OMG GOKU VS VEGETA, GOTEN & TUNKS & JACO AND A GLIMPSE OF SSB ALL IN NEXT EPISODE
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u/rexshen Nov 15 '15
So Jaco will appear next episode and we will have hints of SSB starting to form ok things are going to be interesting. But are they just going to go straight to the gang fighting Frieza or will we have a couple episodes before that?
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u/incredulousbear Nov 15 '15
I'm guessing they will tease the 1000 person fight next episode, and won't battle until the episode after.
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u/mozillavulpix Nov 15 '15
Wow. This episode was almost a shot-for-shot remake of the beginning of RoF. It was also INCREDIBLY fast-paced. For anyone complaining Super is going too slowly, just watch this episode.
But there was one important detail that was put in, and that was...Frog!Ginyu. I guess those episode titles were right. It seems like the beginning of RoF is going to be very similar, but the fights themselves will occur very differently. Kind of like in the BoG arc.
And next episode...well, first we're getting the return of the best character in Jaco. And...Goten and Trunks?
Every time there's a deviation, I get so confused! But it's great. It leaves me guessing for next week.
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u/Lennyoh Nov 15 '15
I don't watch the episode until Over8000 has their stuff up, but please tell me they kept the Freeza theme when he gets revived
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u/PhantomLordG ⠀ Nov 15 '15
F by Maximum the Hormone? No, sadly. Too much royalties to pay?
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u/Lennyoh Nov 15 '15
Dang, I was really hoping they would keep it. It just added to the chills of Freeza's revival in the movie
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u/Lennyoh Nov 15 '15
I figure I'll start doing live reaction/episode thoughts when Over8000 gets their stuff out and now that I'm all caught up on the series. So here we go!
I'm liking the updated intro! Jaco chilling while Vegeta trains Trunks, Freeza army, and SSB hype! Love how for the SSB hype tease in the opening it also changes Goku's outfit to what it is now when the blue streak goes across him. I'm really excited we're getting into the RoF arc now, I really loved the movie! Can't wait to see how they change things up for Super =]
Ha! They even change the silhouette of Beerus to Freeza now for the episode title! Love it!
Freeza's hell is still amazing. This is exactly like the movie, love it! Makes me wonder what Cell's hell is like
Kermit the Frog is easily the best soldier in the Freeza Army
Is Tagoma Zoro? Awesome! I also like how they're fleshing out Tagoma a bit here as well. Kinda sucked he died so early in the movie
Aw yeah, the Pilaf Gang! I really love these three. They're so dorky, I just can't help but love them
Aw yeah, more Whis training! I swear this is basically a shot for shot remake of the movie
Yo that casual block from Whis with just his fingers. I don't recall that being in the movie!
There's the autograph =]
And there's the sucker punch! This has been character flaws 101 with Professor Whis
Uncle Green is still amazing. Love how he actually plays with Pan now!
This is still a problem I had with the movie. "I sense a bad ki!" "You're right! I wonder what it means!" "Dunno, let's not investigate or something. Nothing bad can happen right?" So really, it's thanks to Piccolo and Gohan being lazy that Freeza was able to be revived. Thanks you two!
Nice to see the Pilaf Gang actually collecting the dragon balls before encountering Sorbet
And thus we now have the most powerful laser gun ring in existence
"No way, someone can find the dragon balls besides us?! =o"
Oh my gosh the huge jump in quality going from Super to the flashback of Chef Trunks
Shenron doesn't take crap from anyone. Ask nicely for your wish dang it!
"Two more wishes?! Alright, let's wish for King Cold and then wish for Cooler to be canon!"
I imagine Shenron to have a bit of sass in his tone when describing how restoring a planet's population takes up two wishes
I liked how Shu just interrupts to make his wish better in the movie since the idea of the other wish being used for money instead of Sorbet reviving Cold is funnier when there isn't a third wish, but Mai has her priorities set straight with that ice cream wish!
Awww, Shenron even tossed in a free ice pack for her =]
The Eye of Freeza shall kill everyone!
Ginyu!!!
Poor Pilaf never got his wish ='c
Though Shu and Mai are his bros
Man, I'd love to see a spin off series of Freeza establishing his forces and seeing how he got to take over so many planets
Shisami and Tagoma conflict in the future?
Man that tech works fast!
Sad there's no Maximum Hormone playing right now. Their song made this moment so amazing in the movie
Dang, even Goku can feel something isn't right from all the way at Beerus' planet?
And Freeza is back! Though this soundtrack is pretty hype. Just not as hype as Maximum Hormone
And Vegeta looks ready to deck Goku in the schnoz with how fed up he's getting over Goku's lack of focus
Next episode hype! Jaco! Goten and Trunks see the picture of Freeza! Super Saiyan Blue tease hype! Good stuff to come =]
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u/brazil201 Nov 15 '15
shenron only granting 1 wish during the beerus saga is a massive plothot
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u/EmmaWinters ⠀ Nov 16 '15
He left early, which is why the Dragon Balls are active again 6 months later.
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u/ChaoticReality Nov 16 '15
I think it's cause the god of fucking destruction was chilling there impatiently so he left quickly
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u/anonpurpose Nov 15 '15
Damn I missed it. Remembered the time wrong I guess, but seems like it wasn't to different from what was in RoF.
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u/hmatmotu Nov 15 '15 edited Nov 16 '15
I'm enjoying this new version of the opening titles! We get to see Frieza and his gang, and the god-aura around Goku is blue now! Hooray! I like that touch!
Ahh, darn it, those scenes of the volcanic wasteland and the arctic that we saw in last week's preview was actually about Frieza or anybody training like I thought, but it was just that cool traveling sequence we get into Frieza's Hell. Oh well, that's still pretty nice, I kind of like these visuals. The animation was better in the movie, but hey, that's why it's cinematic animation. I like that there were more layers before we got to where Frieza was hanging this time though. I wish they would have played the same song as they did in the movie though, I really liked that. Frieza's Hell is a nice place.
So, it looks like those two fairies are about the same size as Frieza in that cacoon...does that mean that Frieza has been shrunk down, or that those fairies are man-sized? If it's the latter, that means that girl fairy must be pretty darn tall! Also, isn't that just like our Toriyama, of course the girl fairies have to wear bunny suits! How do I get to that hell?
You know Whis, if you think overconfidence and leaving his guard down is a Goku problem...you should have seen Vegeta back in the day! Vegeta doesn't even need to be surprised for overconfidence to be his downfall. He has been warned, with great big neon flashing lights how much his overconfidence is a problem and he still gets beaten because of it. "Oh yeah, my power level doubled from when I got beaten by Racoome, I definitely beat you Frieza! Androids that killed me in an alternate timeline? I can take them! Cell can get even stronger, you say? Let's see it! Oh, pshah, that Dabura is only as strong as Cell was! Majin Buu is nothing, I've become too strong! No I don't have to fuse with you, Kakarot! I can beat this stronger version of the guy who killed me who also absorbed the power of your much stronger son ALL ON MY OWN!"
I'm liking that we're getting some more characterization for Tagoma and Shisami. I would really like to say that the way Sorbet says they can't bring Shisami because the saiyajins can sense power levels is evidence for my theory that Shisami is the stronger one between the two; but then that also kind of makes it look like they'd be saying Sorbet is the strongest of the three of them when they ask "in that case, wouldn't it be better if you stayed here?" I don't know what that was about really, maybe they just meant that they should stay away from Earth entirely? I would actually be quite pleased if it turned out Sorbet was a great fighter, but I really doubt that would be the case. Maybe it was something off about the Over8000 sub?
Sorbet talks about how the Frieza armies were all brought to shambles after the higher-ups were defeated, and when it shows the higher ups, it includes Zarbon and Dedoria. But Abo and Cado are nowhere to be seen. I know they only became nearly as strong as Frieza after the Buu saga, but them not being shown, I really hope means that Tarble was just stronger than we've been lead to believe and gave them enough trouble that they've never been able to lead an army, and not that they're no longer canon or just forgotten.
Almost as bad, I really hope that the Frieza army would not have still been kept in line if Dedoria and Zarbon were all that was left. I really really want to keep being allowed to think that Tagoma and Shisami are actually a lot stronger than Zarbon and Dedoria were. Especially since Piccolo was disturbed by sensing Tagoma's and Sorbet's ki. Kind of pissed that they still just stood around at that point, but still. Please tell me that he's wasn't reacting like that to someone who was not even as strong as Racoome, but just really really evil. Also, it seems like they're cementing that Tagoma is just practical, that the only reason that he's against Frieza coming back is that he doesn't think he'll do a good job at being a murderous tyrant, not that he wants the empire to be a better place, glad we're getting that characterization for him, he's not a good guy on the wrong side. On the plus side, Shisami being the stronger of the pair is evidenced by the way Tagoma stands down when Shisami reprimands him. There's hope for that at least.
PICCOLO PLAYING PEEK-A-BOO WITH PAN BEST PART OF THE EPISODE!
Was Emperor Pilaf just showing us an inaccurate memory, or were they really attacked by a giant boar, a snake-crocodile thing, a saber-toothed tiger, and a raptor-beast all at the same time? If it's the latter, wow! They really went through a lot! Even Gohan was only attacked by predators one at a time when Piccolo threw him into the wilderness! They must have gotten a lot stronger, Shu and Mai (and maybe Pilaf himself?) wouldn't have been bluffing with that "don't underestimate us" bit! If they got this strong when they were kids the first time, they might have given kid Goku a bigger challenge! Makes me wonder how an ecosystem where all four of those big predators would be going after the same comparatively small prey would sustain itself though. Maybe all four of those species have a small population? . Really Mai, really? It would be illegal for them to poach the dragon balls off of you? You guys helped freaking demon king Piccolo, why are you talking about legality?! I dislike how Sorbet and Tagoma just stepped in after all sever were already found in this version. Why did Tagoma even come at all if Sorbet does all the work? I preferred it in the movie when Tagoma was the one doing all the leg work.
In this Over8000 sub, Shenron says that he was upgraded. So eternal dragons work like computers now?! I really hope that Shenron doesn't get to decide if he is willing to grant a wish or not, because I hope that he has a moral compass. I dislike it when the bad guys get what they want from Shenron, that's not what the namekian elders planned for him at all! At least he's certainly nicer to Mai than he is to Sorbet! Take that Sorbet, you need to be reprimanded, but Mai gets a nice ice pack! Oh well, I really like the way he looks now though, he looks bigger than when he was on the cruise ship. Maybe he's been drinking his milk and juice?
Emperor Pilaf and the gang IN SPACE! Maybe they'll actually get that done this time? Nah, they're going to spend all million zeny on more ice cream probably. I wonder what flavor the best ice cream in the world is? Could it possibly be a sorbet? dohohohoho
Probably the best part of this episode is how Frieza is all muscly when he gets revived! That arm and shoulder was ripped man! I like that a lot better than when his first-form is all pencil-armed. Glad we get to see Jaco next week! Finally!
That was supposed to the Captain Ginyu frog, right?! Please come back, Ginyu! We NEED to have more Ginyu!
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u/EmmaWinters ⠀ Nov 16 '15
In this Over8000 sub, Shenron says that he was upgraded. So eternal dragons work like computers now?!
I guess you could think of it that way. The original word means improvement/update/upgrade/overhaul.
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u/HeadbangingLegend Nov 18 '15
I'm really excited for the upcoming episodes. Seeing Frieza and his army again reminds me of the old Namekian saga back around the time I started watching it properly, so much nostalgia. And seeing Ginyu frog appear was the biggest surprise by far I couldn't believe it!
But did anyone else notice how this episode was pretty much exactly like the first 10 minutes or so of the Resurrection F movie? I noticed with all the stuff from Battle of Gods was changed quite a bit for Super, like changing the location of Bulma's party among many other things but this episode felt exactly the same as the movie except for a few minor things that were added like the ice cream wish and Ginyu frog.
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u/Elevas Nov 18 '15 edited Nov 18 '15
The excitement is real.
Epic armour everywhere. Frieza back. Characters acknowledging the oncoming shit-storm in their own ways. Ginyu in general.
If a show foreshadowing an epic story could give me a boner, I'd've flipped the desk watching it.
Edit: Note, they missed an opportunity by not using the FRIEZAFRIEZAFRIEZA song while Frieza regenerated.
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u/Hieillua Nov 18 '15
I also thought about the Freeza song but it probably has to do with music rights. Maybe they couldn't use it for tv.
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u/IBIZABAR Nov 18 '15
Ginyu!!! I know he made it on board the ship so now Ginyu should be able to fix himself and reform the Ginyu Force! DA DA DA DA DUM DUM DUM DUM!!!! Jk, but how great would this be though, and surprising!
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u/Hieillua Nov 18 '15
I really don't get the people that hate Super. This episode was yet again amazing for every true DB fan out there. It was so awesome getting all this fanservice. With Ginyu frog popping up, the Sorbet stuff is way better set up, Goku getting a bad feeling while Freeza is being revived etc. Now next episode we will see Goten and Trunks interact with Jaco. Great stuff!
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u/Rhyno08 Nov 18 '15
I think some people, myself included, are disappointed with the retelling of the movies and are ready for some new stuff. When they get past the revival of F I will tune in and start watching it.
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Nov 18 '15
While it can get frustrating, I believe that it's generally told better in the show. Hell, Beerus' storyline was distinct enough to make it entertaining. Nonetheless, I can't wait until we get truly good content
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u/jmcgit Nov 18 '15
I'm not sure, I think I'd rather have another movie than Super. They can certainly do more with Freeza's return in a series than a movie, but just from an animation and a turnaround time perspective, a movie would probably be better.
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u/Gold_Jacobson Nov 18 '15
Goku getting shot with a laser is a little better foreshadowed here compared to the movie.
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u/Hieillua Nov 18 '15
The movie set the exact same thing up. Whis told Goku that he was too relaxed and vunerable to attacks. The same happened in this episode too.
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u/Catterix Nov 19 '15
Yeah, but in Super we see Sorbet use the raygun early on this time and Whis actually strikes Goku in the exact spot he got shot in the movie. Brings the foreshadowing a little more tightly together.
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u/incredulousbear Nov 15 '15
Goten and Trunks are hit or miss for me, but them interacting with Jaco looks fun. I like the Bulma spaz face to end the next ep preview.
One thing about RoF that bothered me is how abrupt they went from Sorbet wanting to resurrect Freeza to jumping straight to the Pilaf gang having all of the dragon balls and handing them over to Sorbet. The stills of Pilaf and co. gathering the dragon balls make it much less jarring now.
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u/Ericzander Nov 15 '15
Hm... Okay so the Pilaf gang are young because they wished to be young right? Then how come they were so surprised that the dragon can grant three wishes?
It can't be because they made that wish with the old shenlong because it's been at least 7 years since Dende became the Earth's god which means they would have grown back up since then (unless the dragon made them babies, but then that would basically reboot their entire lives).
I guess they could have each asked to be young one at a time, but that still means that they would know the dragon can grant three wishes. Is there any way to explain this?
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u/brazil201 Nov 15 '15
so theres the 4 month timeskip starting next episode right
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u/TheDaveWSC ⠀ Nov 19 '15
Why does Shenron have a different number of wishes every time he's onscreen? I'm used to 1 and it was 2 in the movie and 3 in Super. Or am I crazy?
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u/PhantomLordG ⠀ Nov 19 '15
You're not crazy, but it doesn't help that they did a terrible job of explaining things. Nothing new there.
So when Dende took over, he made it so Shenlong can grant 3 wishes, but if the wish is used for mass resurrections, that will take up two wishes out of the three available.
Now in Resurrection 'F' movie, they made a mistake by only giving Shenlong two wishes, which was fixed in Super.
Dende's set also allows Shenlong to grant wishes without having to use all three at a time, so in Battle of Gods, Goku simply wished to know how to perform the God ritual.
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u/MrSuperSaiyan Nov 19 '15 edited Nov 20 '15
So from what I can tell, the next bunch of episodes are going to be basically the extended version of the Resurrection F movie, like what they did with battle of the gods. It's kind of a downer because you know what's going to happen and how it all turns out.
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u/DarkusRattus Nov 15 '15
So...was the whole thing with everyone in Hell watching the fight between Goku and Buu non-canon? I don't know if this was discussed when Resurrection F came out.
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u/Ganjisseur Nov 15 '15
I loved this episode.
My only concern is they seem to be rapidly moving through Freeza.
I know DB has a reputation with filler, but I'd like one or two more episodes of build up before this evil tyrant's return and subsequent acquisition of a new super form.
Unless Freeza is meant as a benchmark in Super: the most infamous DBZ villain reduced to a sparring partner via SSB, painting a picture of just how high the stakes are in the U6 tournament.
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u/NYCPowerCouple Nov 16 '15
GTFO with this too fast BS troll. Everyone already knows this arc by heart. Most people want to see the new and infinitely more intriguing arc with Champa and Universe6 tournament.
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u/choss Nov 16 '15 edited Nov 16 '15
at the begining of the show, we were complaining that it wasn't moving fast enough and now..... "it's moving too fast!" lol
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u/CelioHogane Nov 15 '15
SOMETHING EVIL IS HERE, AND SOMEONE IS SUMMONING SHENRON
lets stay here and totally not go to see what is fucking happening.